Is there a reason digital pumpkin prizes are half of traditional? Based on my experience as a digital artist (of which i have quite a bit, mind you), it takes a lot longer to do a fully rendered and even at times animated pumpkin entry (based on previous entries).

For example, it takes me around 20-40 hours of work for a fully rendered, painted piece (qualities of previous digital contest winners - last year's winner was ANIMATED, an extremely time consuming process in my experience. Shouldn't they be compensated for that work?) and only around 2-3 hours of carving a detailed pumpkin (last time i did it, which was, admittedly, a few years back).

It just seems a bit... unfair, considering the amount of time, care and work put into both projects, yet one is awarded half the prize of the other.

Support. Digital art always seems to be considered 'lesser' than traditional, despite them being equal.

It's a hill i will die on xD

I despise seeing digital art being seen as lesser. That is simply not the case, as someone who's done both 3d/2d traditional and digital for almost a decade. It's extremely disheartening to see, especially on a site consisting entirely of digital art :(

Krin's said before that it's because of the cost of traditional supplies.

The supplies being pumpkins.

The pumpkins that everyone entering the contest must buy.

The pumpkins that don't increase in price depending on how good you are at carving.

The pumpkins that aren't worth the double placement prizes in the first place.


Yeah, not a fan. Barrier to entry stuff should be reflected in the participation prizes, if at all. That's what they're for, right?

To be 100% crystal clear: I want digital prizes to be raised, not have traditional lowered. I noticed the participation prizes seemed to be lowered and equal to the digital prizes for the Easter contest, which is the opposite of what I wanted to happen.

I could go out and carve a pumpkin for under 10 bucks xD Where i am, i can buy a pumpkin for 3 dollars, and pick up a set of tools if i don't feel like using stuff i have around the dorm.

My drawing tablet on the other hand has baseline $400, not to mention yearly pen replacements because i draw so much.

Also what's up with the comparison to ginger bread houses?! Those are easily expensive both in time and money. THAT I understand. Not whatever... this... is.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=104179&page=1#4 Author: Catinheadlights Time Posted: 10/18/2022 at 9:21 PM Krin's said before that it's because of the cost of traditional supplies. The supplies being pumpkins. The pumpkins that everyone entering the contest must buy. The pumpkins that don't increase in price depending on how good you are at carving. The pumpkins that aren't worth the double placement prizes in the first place. Yeah, not a fan. Barrier to entry stuff should be reflected in the participation prizes, if at all. That's what they're for, right? To be 100% crystal clear: I want digital prizes to be raised, not have traditional lowered. I noticed the participation prizes seemed to be lowered and equal to the digital prizes for the Easter contest, which is the opposite of what I wanted to happen.

^This.

TLDR at the bottom.

Prices vary depending on where you live. One person's $3 pumpkin could be another person's $6-$10 pumpkin. Other then for this contest there's really no point in having a pumpkin in the first place if you weren't originally going to carve one. If you have a $200-$400 (or whatever the cost) digital art tablet then it has nothing to do with you going out and getting that tablet SPECIFICALLY for this one contest so to compare that is really silly. This is coming from someone who dabbles in both traditional and digital art.

As far as digital vs. traditional, it could also be argued that digital artists have more flexibility with their entries that make it easier then the traditional pumpkin carving. Everyone has the same time frame to complete their entry but with traditional entries you really have to plan it out. There's no room for error and once you start digging into that pumpkin you MUST work quickly to get it done before it completely deteriorates. (As learned from previous years, you can't get the pumpkin too early either because they mold if you get them too early and if you wait until too late you may not have the best choice of pumpkin's to choose from.) With digital art, you have the flexibility to pace that out and spend a bit of time each day and go back and fix errors if you make them~ but you don't have to spend that time if you really don't want to. No one is chaining you to the chair and telling you that you have to put that much effort into it.

It took me 5 days of working on the dragon pumpkin carving to try to get it done before it completely deteriorated (at least 12 hours over those few days). It was a lot of very careful carving so I wouldn't make a mistake and every single scale on that dragon was carved out using a sewing needle to really help get the texture in there~ and I get decent sized pumpkins when I do carve so I have plenty of room to work with- not an insignificant amount of ground to cover when you're working with a sewing needle. There was also trying to come up with a technique that blemished the clouds without carving into them to make sure the light penetrated through~ (I used the back of a paint brush and worked little circles into the skin to bruise it enough that the light could shine through so that it wasn't as dark as the rest of the pumpkin that wasn't carved- admittedly my fingers were also throughly bruised after all the pressure of using these little objects to work on this). Mind you, the amount of work that went into it far outstripped the in game rewards I got for that work~ but it's something that I can excitedly look back at and be proud of, which is rather priceless in my opinion.

I don't really have any reason to participate in the pumpkin carving contests anymore~ my thing in this game is collecting legendaries after all~ and they have nothing to do with these contests. I get very little from these forum games which is why I don't usually participate, but even knowing that going in I'm determined to do a pumpkin carving this year - not for the prizes but because I want to~ it gives me a chance to do something I normally wouldn't and it makes for some great photos to share with friends/coworkers/family when they ask what art I've done this year. I'm also flattered that Krin still uses that submission for the traditional carving examples~ maybe what I do this year can be the next one they use but I won't know until I try~


TLDR
I would agree with Caitin that at that point the participation prizes for the traditional entry should reflect the cost of the traditional pumpkins. Other then that, I see no problem with the tier prizes being the same otherwise between both traditional and digital - neither one is something to scoff at when there's a lot of work and dedication put into them. For digital artists, please don't devalue traditional pumpkin carving either. There are different things to consider then just the amount of time put into them.

Thank you eim, that was very well put! :>

Both traditional and digital are on even footing value-wise, I just wish the prizes would reflect that. It's like comparing oranges and grapefruits. Different, but both citrus xD

Been a long day and the brain is a bit snappish :p Art is something I am quite passionate about, having started with traditional and now more digital oriented, I see it all too often people thinking digital as 'lesser.'

Your dragon pumpkin is incredible! I wish I had that patience, but I can't stand the pumpkin slime xD

As we have stated before, it is not that "Digital" prizes are less - it is that "Traditional" prizes are more; amplified due to the cost and effort required to actually participate.

The "Digital" prizes are in line with all of our other contest prize tier points throughout Sylestia history. The "Traditional" ones are the ones increased. Digital is not decreased. There may be some outliers throughout the years for xyz reason, but this has been basically the norm since the beginning.

Krin, I'm begging you to actually read what I write instead of giving a stock response.

I know that cost is why. I addressed that. I think it's a bad reason.

As a note on value, if a > b, then b < a. That's it. That's all. There is no "a is greater but b isn't less actually". That's not how value works. If traditional is worthy of more prizes, then digital is worth fewer prizes, regardless of how you frame it. It doesn't matter which one is your "standard", especially not when there's only 2 contests to compare during a given fest.

Participation prizes are what reflect the barrier to entry. The placement prizes are for going above and beyond. By putting the difference in the placement prizes instead of the participation prizes, you are saying that traditional art is inherently worth more than digital art. That is the problem. People obviously don't want prizes to be lowered because of this, so we want equalization without lowering prizes - i.e. raise digital or put the max difference that's already there into participation.

If you genuinely think the cost of a pumpkin is worth the 1k dia and 2 disruptor difference, and you're bent on keeping the digital prizes the same, then put the difference in the participation prizes.

A first place pumpkin isn't more expensive than one that doesn't place. To allocate prizes with that assumption is absurd. There is no reason why the difference should be in the placement prizes. Are the non-winning entries getting their money refunded? Can you sense them getting discounts through the screen? No? Then put the difference in the participation prizes.

They're pumpkins. You are judging carvings. The first place winners aren't going out getting designer pumpkins for $50 or whatever. This isn't baking. You don't buy 300% more pumpkin to win first place, you can't.

See that's the thing. Pumpkins are coming into season in the states and with thanksgiving around the corner pumpkins are in abundance. For me to buy a pumpkin in spring to carve I'm looking at $4 a kg. To get a decent one I'm looking at I dunno like $15-$20. 1k dias =$20 that's if I win and I tend to not. So I'm probably not going to participate cause the cost doesn't equal what I will send for participation prizes. To do a digital design, I have a wiacom tablet I can attach to my pc and I don't need to spend money I could spend on food, on a pumpkin.