Hi there,

I know you're new, and that this is a high traffic thread, so it seems it would make sense to post an advertisement here, right? However, I think you'll find that the threads in the Pet Sales Forum will help you a lot more, and you'll be able to keep the focus on this thread topic-specific.

Thanks!

Well thanks for working so hard with us and listening to our feedback!

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=67676&page=9#85 Author: SpaceElf1 Time Posted: 10/20/2018 at 10:12 PM Ah. I must admit that I hadn't given much thought to Luporas from Essences. I buy a lot of Mutators and Dyes, but I don't use Essences at all. I see Krin's point about the site economy as a whole, and we all want to keep Sylestia going. That said, I am not yet convinced that fully re-gen'able pets keep people from buying Essences. Re-vamps generally come with the introduction of new traits, which the re-gen'able pets cannot get (unless they are Tamed pets that can be mutated). What I had hoped for was re-gen'able, Tamed Luporas that would let me use the Trait Points from a trait that I did not like--moving the trait out of the way of a new trait that I could add via a Greater Mutator, if necessary. This would result in me buying a lot of Greater Mutators, but I am okay with that. Since Krin can see the site's records, and I cannot, I'm prepared to be proved wrong. Perhaps Essence purchases from the site do drop severely after a species becomes re-gen'able, to a degree that isn't made up by purchases of GGMs. Not arguing with anyone, just explaining my perspective. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread, already in progress.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Re-Generation process exists to kind of be a bandaid for this very unnatural process and upgrading old artwork. As time has gone on, you guys (not singling you out here, Spelf, just was mainly quoting your response for reference) have kind of turned it into its own little feature/economy lol. That was never the intention. =P

And we've never guaranteed that pets will be Re-Gen'able after a revamp. So when you guys breed hoards of pets or buy hoards of pets in preparation for mass Re-Gen's - that's entirely not its purpose and there is never a guarantee that it will work out that way.

I think, as time has gone on, that's kind of gotten forgotten about and Re-Gen's are now taken for granted. They are mainly for scenarios like... Shadow Markings.

Shadow Markings now stretches multiple slots and was vastly redesigned. Therefore, it will trigger a Re-Gen and, at minimum, allow owners to select new Genes and new colors for those new Genes.

The Re-Gen process is not meant to just be a, "Here, you can completely redesign every pet of this species that you've ever created even if the Traits it had weren't changed at all because now you might like something better." But I think it's being interpreted that way a bit. And that most definitely was never the intention of the system.

So that's definitely something that I think needs to be kept in mind as well.

I am adoring the new Lupora design! I agree with not doing full trait regens, and would be very happy with just the colour regens for the offspring. Cant wait for the new lupes <3
Once again, thank you so much for your work, krin :3 I hope you know that we all really appreciate it!

Hey Krin, I havent been able to play much but I wanted to say thank you! Youre being so accommodating and understanding with us players and thats not something just any site admin will do. I can hardly play right now so I dont have much of an opinion, I have no lup projects going, but I have one sentimental lup from my first few days of playtime. He was a welcome gift and I really love him, and seeing as colors will get shifted a bit, I like the idea of getting a full color regen for offspring pets. I think traits should stay the same unless they change drastically (like warden armor on morkkos)

Again, thank you! The new artwork is absolutely fantastic :) the new textures and coloring is beautiful and i cant stop gushing over them, haha

I'm a little late to this, but I just wanted to mention that the "challenge" of working hard to get to the fun things in sylestia can sometimes be so unfun that it cannot make up for the actual enjoyable parts of the game. Games aren't fun because they're challenging unless the challenge itself is fun. Spending a fortune on dyes to get the right color in a single trait slot, clicking eggs for hours to afford scales, waiting months doing missions while saving for a single essence... all of that is not very fun. And before the combat system revamp/lost grove, grinding for gold to even afford starting a project was hugely discouraging. And while I love the new combat system, for me, what really matters is the actual gameplay - the collection/creation of pets, how appealing they look, how clunky or intuitive the various systems are to learn/use, seeing different outcomes when breeding, the story/mythos of the world, exploring new areas, getting interesting outcomes.

So rather than just thinking about whether something makes it too hard or too easy, I think the focus should be more on making the challenging parts actually fun. I have a real job where I work hard. Games I play for fun. So the idea of artificial 'work' in order to get to the actual fun parts seems absurd. I can understand the real life financial motivation for creating 'challenge' - so people will spend real money to get to the fun parts instead of slogging through the boring/tedious parts. But otherwise, the hard work people put in isn't affected by pets being regennable. Presumably, if someone's bred a nice project and the species gets regenned, then at least if the revamped outcomes aren't something they like they can then regen it to get something they'd rather have. I don't know how drastically the new lupora markings differ from the old ones, but given the detail on the fur, like with the lune wings, even if the markings are similar it could ruin a lot of designs because the shading/highlighting overpowers it.

I recall I had some puffs with totemic runes, which I really liked, but when the runes marking changed, it just didn't look good because the marking itself had changed and become really blurry, so even with the color being regennable, it was impossible to salvage in a way I liked. Which is why I feel like not just colors, but the actual traits matter too. For the luporas, I personally don't have many that would really be hugely affected this way, since I'm still breeding for traits I like and mainly my themeds/purebreds are the ones I'm hoping still look nice with their current markings, but I sympathize with those who do have huge finished projects. I am glad purebreds will be treated the same as themeds this time around. I have a few pets that I regenned with different colors, only to have them tagged as purebreds months later, which was hugely disappointing when I realized what had happened. :( But I am worried especially how M1 will look on the lupes with the new much heavier fur shading. At least for my themeds I can use disruptors if the look of the markings change drastically, which seems to be the case. As a gem shop idea, though: a trait disruptor that works only on purebred offspring would be seriously amazing.

As someone who would rarely consider buying mystical essences, regardless, because of how expensive they are, the whole economy reasoning was surprising to me. Did sales of mystical essences drop that badly after the past revamps? Given that even fully regenable pets can't have any newly added traits, I'd think that full regens would increase essence sales, not decrease it. After all, if someone has the chance to add new traits they like to their regenned project, using essences would be far easier than finding pets and then dying the offspring to match. That is, if they had the real life money to afford buying it outright. In the amount of time it would take me to get enough gold to afford a single essence, I could probably have tamed/bought/bred and dyed a ton of project offspring already. If I am going to spend my time on a game for the challenge, that challenge needs to be fun, otherwise it is time wasted.

I remember back when the ferrikki came out, I briefly considered buying mystical essences. But after seeing the price, it just wasn't worth it to me. So I gave up on the idea of breeding ferrikki entirely, because the amount of time it would take for me to afford enough essences and start a project would be more of a waste than if I simply waited for prices of offspring to drop and then bought those to breed. And in the meanwhile I could spend my gold on things that were worth it, like prisma philters and stable space. Possibly, it becomes worth it if all that money spent actually turns a profit, but that requires more time to become familiar with the pet market than I can realistically spend. And I play sylestia because it's a pet site, not an economy simulator. I always find it strange so much effort is spent in order to maintain some fictional economy rather than focusing on what most players are presumably there for - collecting pets.

For players are who are still trying to get rid of their 12 Trait/Full Color Re-Generations - if I had the gold and stable space, I'd basically buy all the regennable pets I could. XD I'm sure I'm not alone in this. But because every bit of my gold is being saved for projects/space, buying new pets tends to be an afterthought these days. And I suspect, that really is the real reason those pets aren't selling: because gold is too hard/tedious to make and stable space is so difficult to acquire, so pet prices plummet as sellers run out of stable space and things sell too slowly. It's the same situation on every single pet site I play that has something similar to stable limits. This adds a lot of frustration to the game, and through that frustration, sylestia is able to make real life money by people buying gems for stable space or as a faster way to making tons of gold. I can see why things are setup this way, but at the same time, it does mean the game economy suffers so that the real life economy of the site survives. I'm not sure if there's a solution that helps both economies, but those pets would not be selling regardless of whether they were regennable or not.

If there's thousands of 12 TP Re-Gens for sale years from now, why is someone going to buy an Essence from the Diamond Shop?

Other than that new traits can't be added to regenned pets, this is a fair question. But this also is the main reason for limiting regennable pets I think? The economy in this case is not the game economy, but the real life economy of real money the site is making. So.. limiting regens will long-term allow sylestia to make more real money. Down the line I can see how a lot of regennable pets would affect this, but perhaps rather than trying to limit regens in the future to hopefully encourage players to buy essences, an idea might be asking the playerbase for suggestions for more gem-only items that are really wanted ahead of time, so there's time to implement them before the revamp in order to offset costs. Limiting stuff that makes things less tedious also makes the game less fun. But it's hard to create things that make the game more fun/interesting while also giving players an incentive to spend real money to support the site.

Something like lupora-themed things in the gem shop to help offset costs maybe. Baskets of themed lupora eggs? Being so close to Halloween, releasing a whole bunch of gem-only spooky lupora themes at once or something similar might help with the costs of the revamp? I don't know how much it costs to create a new marking, or how much work is involved, but some sites do player-submitted designs with the reward being a copy of the marking if it's used on the site, so that might be an option too. Possibly costumes instead of gem-only disruptors, since there are very few costumes available. Most of these are probably too late for the lupe revamp, but for the next time possibly they might help with the real life costs.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=67676&page=10#96 Author: Squeak Time Posted: 10/21/2018 at 3:02 AM I'm a little late to this, but I just wanted to mention that the "challenge" of working hard to get to the fun things in sylestia can sometimes be so unfun that it cannot make up for the actual enjoyable parts of the game. Games aren't fun because they're challenging unless the challenge itself is fun. Spending a fortune on dyes to get the right color in a single trait slot, clicking eggs for hours to afford scales, waiting months doing missions while saving for a single essence... all of that is not very fun. And before the combat system revamp/lost grove, grinding for gold to even afford starting a project was hugely discouraging. And while I love the new combat system, for me, what really matters is the actual gameplay - the collection/creation of pets, how appealing they look, how clunky or intuitive the various systems are to learn/use, seeing different outcomes when breeding, the story/mythos of the world, exploring new areas, getting interesting outcomes. So rather than just thinking about whether something makes it too hard or too easy, I think the focus should be more on making the challenging parts actually fun. I have a real job where I work hard. Games I play for fun. So the idea of artificial 'work' in order to get to the actual fun parts seems absurd. I can understand the real life financial motivation for creating 'challenge' - so people will spend real money to get to the fun parts instead of slogging through the boring/tedious parts. But otherwise, the hard work people put in isn't affected by pets being regennable. Presumably, if someone's bred a nice project and the species gets regenned, then at least if the revamped outcomes aren't something they like they can then regen it to get something they'd rather have. I don't know how drastically the new lupora markings differ from the old ones, but given the detail on the fur, like with the lune wings, even if the markings are similar it could ruin a lot of designs because the shading/highlighting overpowers it. I recall I had some puffs with totemic runes, which I really liked, but when the runes marking changed, it just didn't look good because the marking itself had changed and become really blurry, so even with the color being regennable, it was impossible to salvage in a way I liked. Which is why I feel like not just colors, but the actual traits matter too. For the luporas, I personally don't have many that would really be hugely affected this way, since I'm still breeding for traits I like and mainly my themeds/purebreds are the ones I'm hoping still look nice with their current markings, but I sympathize with those who do have huge finished projects. I am glad purebreds will be treated the same as themeds this time around. I have a few pets that I regenned with different colors, only to have them tagged as purebreds months later, which was hugely disappointing when I realized what had happened. :( But I am worried especially how M1 will look on the lupes with the new much heavier fur shading. At least for my themeds I can use disruptors if the look of the markings change drastically, which seems to be the case. As a gem shop idea, though: a trait disruptor that works only on purebred offspring would be seriously amazing. As someone who would rarely consider buying mystical essences, regardless, because of how expensive they are, the whole economy reasoning was surprising to me. Did sales of mystical essences drop that badly after the past revamps? Given that even fully regenable pets can't have any newly added traits, I'd think that full regens would increase essence sales, not decrease it. After all, if someone has the chance to add new traits they like to their regenned project, using essences would be far easier than finding pets and then dying the offspring to match. That is, if they had the real life money to afford buying it outright. In the amount of time it would take me to get enough gold to afford a single essence, I could probably have tamed/bought/bred and dyed a ton of project offspring already. If I am going to spend my time on a game for the challenge, that challenge needs to be fun, otherwise it is time wasted. I remember back when the ferrikki came out, I briefly considered buying mystical essences. But after seeing the price, it just wasn't worth it to me. So I gave up on the idea of breeding ferrikki entirely, because the amount of time it would take for me to afford enough essences and start a project would be more of a waste than if I simply waited for prices of offspring to drop and then bought those to breed. And in the meanwhile I could spend my gold on things that were worth it, like prisma philters and stable space. Possibly, it becomes worth it if all that money spent actually turns a profit, but that requires more time to become familiar with the pet market than I can realistically spend. And I play sylestia because it's a pet site, not an economy simulator. I always find it strange so much effort is spent in order to maintain some fictional economy rather than focusing on what most players are presumably there for - collecting pets. For players are who are still trying to get rid of their 12 Trait/Full Color Re-Generations - if I had the gold and stable space, I'd basically buy all the regennable pets I could. XD I'm sure I'm not alone in this. But because every bit of my gold is being saved for projects/space, buying new pets tends to be an afterthought these days. And I suspect, that really is the real reason those pets aren't selling: because gold is too hard/tedious to make and stable space is so difficult to acquire, so pet prices plummet as sellers run out of stable space and things sell too slowly. It's the same situation on every single pet site I play that has something similar to stable limits. This adds a lot of frustration to the game, and through that frustration, sylestia is able to make real life money by people buying gems for stable space or as a faster way to making tons of gold. I can see why things are setup this way, but at the same time, it does mean the game economy suffers so that the real life economy of the site survives. I'm not sure if there's a solution that helps both economies, but those pets would not be selling regardless of whether they were regennable or not. If there's thousands of 12 TP Re-Gens for sale years from now, why is someone going to buy an Essence from the Diamond Shop? Other than that new traits can't be added to regenned pets, this is a fair question. But this also is the main reason for limiting regennable pets I think? The economy in this case is not the game economy, but the real life economy of real money the site is making. So.. limiting regens will long-term allow sylestia to make more real money. Down the line I can see how a lot of regennable pets would affect this, but perhaps rather than trying to limit regens in the future to hopefully encourage players to buy essences, an idea might be asking the playerbase for suggestions for more gem-only items that are really wanted ahead of time, so there's time to implement them before the revamp in order to offset costs. Limiting stuff that makes things less tedious also makes the game less fun. But it's hard to create things that make the game more fun/interesting while also giving players an incentive to spend real money to support the site. Something like lupora-themed things in the gem shop to help offset costs maybe. Baskets of themed lupora eggs? Being so close to Halloween, releasing a whole bunch of gem-only spooky lupora themes at once or something similar might help with the costs of the revamp? I don't know how much it costs to create a new marking, or how much work is involved, but some sites do player-submitted designs with the reward being a copy of the marking if it's used on the site, so that might be an option too. Possibly costumes instead of gem-only disruptors, since there are very few costumes available. Most of these are probably too late for the lupe revamp, but for the next time possibly they might help with the real life costs.

Ok thank you!!! I didnt know how to say what I wanted but you did it!! The colors and traits dont always play well XD when one gray looks amazing on an old art pet may look horrid on the "same" trait of the new art.
Personly I love Lunar Ruins as they are now but they may change to much and I may not like the "updated" art. (I WILL cry if they change to much and turn out horrid)

Look at the Venes (another species Iove) they changed soooo much!! Some of the traits look nothing like they used to. I used to love the back spikes but now they make me cringe alot...

Also some traits just dont play nice with spesific colors. The Mech traits for example on the Lupe now dont play nice. Like the metalic parts dont play nice on the wings when paired with the armor and helm.

Im also a little (ok A LOT) atrached to the current art.

So what about the rainbow traits? Are they being removed?

I have this one. Will the helmet just change to the normal one, or would I be able to pick something else out for him? ^^"

While I am a little disappointed that all my efforts to collect and breed Lupes were unsettled, I completely understand and agree with why you are hesitant to allow full re-gens. I'd just be acting greedy if I said it's better for the website. It's fun and you do get to create your perfect pet, something I don't have the time and know-how to do the traditional way, BUT as you said... if it's just handed to us, there is no challenge, and kinda diminishes the efforts people put into their projects.

Sounds great! And makes perfect sense really. They look so cute and the way you arranged things is so awesomely organized. Thank you for putting in so much time and hard work with us!