I indeed meant prestige stats, that way someone that maxes prestige on a super max pair can breed superior stats to what is currently available but can only breed one(fabled)/two (non fabled) per week and if bred those babies will breed offspring at such a reduction its hardly worth it. Making the offspring of max/super with max prestige still good but less so than leveling one yourself and will never be bred in such quantities that they will lose their specialness

Krin I love this plan! Its incredibly well thought-out. The only issue I have with it is #3. I rarely have time to finish my pet growing because I travel quite a bit. I know that a lot of other players are uncomfortable with the thought of maybe not getting pets they spent a lot of gold and time on. Maybe just increase the % the pets need to be at to be auto-finished? Bc its also not fair when people start a ton of pets and then ignore them, knowing that theyll just get them anyways. Anyways Im glad we have such a great admin and coder :) thank you!

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=81803&page=12#120 Author: Littlemissmoriarty Time Posted: 10/21/2019 at 8:43 PM That makes a litte more sense, but then there is the question: .what would be the point of prestige breeding if, 50% (used as an example) would be taken away? I dont understand that one lol. Wild stat breeding is already complicated for me, this prestige business isnt helping lmao. I am trying to understand it all, but yes, as I think Xavion mentioned earlier, I think a lot more thought might need to be poured into this. Edit: It seems to be a neat feature, but I honestly am not sure I would ever use it, even if breeding were to be allowed with it. I'm not worried about all the over cap exp I have, to me its just numbers. I woudnt mind if after one reaches the level cap, exp just stops there, no extra. Though I know other people are more concerned about their pet levels, I am one that I;m meh about, mainly because I play pretty fast. I don't even really worry about ability expertise leveling, because I know Ill hit rank 4 eventually. And since levels dont matter really when stat-breeding....I have other goals to go for at the moment. I like new things, and maybe Ill just take one pet, and prestige it, just to see what it looks like, but its not a feature I'm overly excited about...maybe its because at this time, I don't understand it much.

At this point in time, I am indeed holding off on releasing the Prestige feature. It's kinda why I haven't expanded talks about it very much and have been more focused on answering the Festival related questions.

The main purpose of the feature (as I would be wanting to create it for) is to give players the opportunity to bring up their Starter Pet, or other similar pets, to near max stat progress over a very long period of time so that players aren't always forced to use max stat pets for competitive play.

But there in lies the problem. I do not want to hurt the demand for max stat pets. How do you do both? I honestly don't really know. The more I think about it, the more I can't find a solution that works - especially one that isn't incredibly convoluted.

So - at this point, I've stalled it. My best idea so far is to just simply have Prestige supplement Base Stats up to the same max that Base Stats abide by and they would not carry over through Breeding at all. This would not only keep current Stat inflation exactly where it's at, but it would also have very minimal impact on Breeding projects. It'd literally just simply be an alternative to - through a lot of battle grinding - have pets you have a bond to that are literally impossible to be max stat... brought up to such... such as Starter Pets... or like Exclusive Forum Game prize pets or something. Etc.

Yeah, that is a much better explanation of Prestige. I no longer have my starter, as I was very unhappy with her after awhile, and learning how the game works, and how to play. And the traits I picked for her, I just do not like. xD But I know folks love their starters, and it would make sense for pets that cant be caught naturally, to try and get caught up.

I'm sure one day down the line, you are going to have an AHA! moment, when its not so already very busy for you.

That is basically what I want with the prestige, the ability to choose whether to buy a max stat pet, or take the time to bring some beloved pets up to that level. That stats don't have to be able to be passed down, nor does it need to be something instant or quick, I just want the ability. Have since I started and learned about max stats.

Honestly, I think that if it were just as stated, not able to be passed down and took a long time, max stat projects wouldn't be in danger. As I said before, many of the max stats are also 6 visible, while most pets, such as starter pets, aren't, so to me, the players who would be interested in taking their starter pets or special pets all the way to max stat level, are not necessarily the types of players who would be interested in buying max stat pets.

I am a bit sad that the prestige feature has been put on hold, but I do understand, and realize that it does need a lot of input and probably balancing before it is implimented and since fall fest is just around the corner (where did October go? does anyone know, I oculd have sworn today was like the 10th), festival stuff takes priority.

I do want to thank you for taking the time to listen to your player base. Sadly so many pet sites don't seem to, or don't want to. It is refreshing to find one that does.

So - at this point, I've stalled it. My best idea so far is to just simply have Prestige supplement Base Stats up to the same max that Base Stats abide by and they would not carry over through Breeding at all. This would not only keep current Stat inflation exactly where it's at, but it would also have very minimal impact on Breeding projects. It'd literally just simply be an alternative to - through a lot of battle grinding - have pets you have a bond to that are literally impossible to be max stat... brought up to such... such as Starter Pets... or like Exclusive Forum Game prize pets or something. Etc.

that would only benefit people using non max though and those that use max stat would have prestige points but nothing to use them on. I suppose if Mana was one that could be increased i for one have rank 4 wonder max stat that dont have 200 mana. Prestige stats not passing onto offspring would be said for pets not found in the grove but alas if it needs to be done to not have this feature break the economy it needs to be done.

Also i would be ok with other ways to be reimbursed for tokens above the cap. I think i had 18k tokens redeemed for both fall and winter fest and spring.... well i had alot. I see the need to change things so that there isnt too much gold in play but yeah this was changed without any prior warning so feels like if i had known i could have used those tokens on other things or sold them at 400g per or lower ya know. Nothing is ever certain here but yeah once talks of tokens not being bought forward for summer fest started i went from 30k tokens redeemed to under 300 i believe on the last day. When i have warning i dont mind using all my tokens and not having any pay out for next fest but the key word there is "warning" i wont hoard any tokens after summer fest and will be using them on other stuff xD

Another thing i am concerned about is "av only drops in zone" This sounds like a bad idea. Looking back on previous fests things like recolours and rarer drops often were dropped so much that they had little to no value anymore. If you have just av items as the only drop that will be even more a thing for this fest. Will mystery pouch thingys still drop? A good option for token using as well as you know less for us players to freak out about would be a pet design thing for x amount of tokens. If it was like 1500 -2500 tokens for fabled and 4000-5000 for restricted thats going to get rid of a huge chunk of tokens from the market as well as keeping the value there. I dunno just throwing suggestions out there now xD

Question on the Pet Prestige: Can you only gain it during Festival events, or is it tied to experience and you can earn it in any region? I agree that having the prestige pass on through breeding would decrease the value of max or super stat pets. However, if it indeed does take a lot of work to achieve a prestige bump, then having those extra stats pass on would make it worth the grind. If prestige stats do pass on, I like the idea of capping the amount of prestige you can earn, say 75 - 100 points. So if you start with a max stat, you can increase its stats to the full amount allowed. Whereas if you started with a pet that has level 50's, the highest you could reach is 150 (and not the full 200). This is definitely a toughie to figure out lol. I more see Prestige as a bonus for your party pets. To be able to increase the stats of my party through experience seems great! And I agree that Prestige is not genetically related, so it wouldn't pass on = seems fair. So.......yeah xP

For the current token hoard questions: I do have more tokens than the 18k cap right now. I don't need gold for those extras, I'd be happy to trade for something rather than them going to waste, or trying to unload them for cheap.

I would like to see sculpting agents still drop in the zone though, at the very least. In order to make all the pets for the task, and extras for projects, we need loads of agents. Having to spend tokens to buy all the agents, and all the catalysts, and all the add ons, and all the extra sculpting slots would be too much imo. I also agree that the prices for sculpting items should be decreased in the fest shop, they are too expensive if the prices stay the same. If we do end up buying all our catalysts from the fest shop, I would love to be able to buy the catalyst I want, instead of a pouch that relies on RNG. That is one thing I love about the Winter fest, being able to buy the catas I want. This would decrease the amount of unwanted catas to near nothing. And someone doesn't get stuck with a cata they didn't want, after spending their hard earned tokens on a random pouch. You could still keep the pouches, and use them as prizes or really rare drops from bosses. But for token spending, I'd like the option to choose my cata.

Your proposal all makes sense: use all your festival things and create all your pets before the festival ends or they are lost to the ether. This seems fair. Knowing all that before the festivals greatly helps with my planning during the festival :) Adding a time progressive component to Summer sculpting would put it on par with the other festivals. That is the only fest I would worry about with the auto-completing going away.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=81803&page=13#123 Author: Krinadon Time Posted: 10/21/2019 at 10:03 PM [quote=1864469] At this point in time, I am indeed holding off on releasing the Prestige feature. It's kinda why I haven't expanded talks about it very much and have been more focused on answering the Festival related questions. The main purpose of the feature (as I would be wanting to create it for) is to give players the opportunity to bring up their Starter Pet, or other similar pets, to near max stat progress over a very long period of time so that players aren't always forced to use max stat pets for competitive play. But there in lies the problem. I do not want to hurt the demand for max stat pets. How do you do both? I honestly don't really know. The more I think about it, the more I can't find a solution that works - especially one that isn't incredibly convoluted. So - at this point, I've stalled it. My best idea so far is to just simply have Prestige supplement Base Stats up to the same max that Base Stats abide by and they would not carry over through Breeding at all. This would not only keep current Stat inflation exactly where it's at, but it would also have very minimal impact on Breeding projects. It'd literally just simply be an alternative to - through a lot of battle grinding - have pets you have a bond to that are literally impossible to be max stat... brought up to such... such as Starter Pets... or like Exclusive Forum Game prize pets or something. Etc.

The prestige feature could really affect pets in a big way, so I can understand pausing it for now.

I do think that adding more types of stats can overly complicate things at best, and lead to a lot of stat inflation at worst...

I also *really* like the clarity of a breeding based set of stats and an experience based set of stats (i.e. base vs wild stats).

However, wild stats are already breeding based now (rather than experience based)...and a lot of projects have incorporated wild stats into them...

So the issue currently remains unaddressed. If things remain the same, all max projects will soon end up 200 mana, and around 100+50 or so wild stats (some already have wild stats higher than this), with the exception of aeris, lighs, and other fabled etc., which will *still* be less.

The new target will then move to +60, +70 etc as people capture and breed more themed legendaries...

This is not neccessarily a good or a bad thing, just acknowledging that the "max stat" baseline has already moved on from 2000 health, 100 stats, etc. And that wild stats are being used mainly as a breeding based stat.

As the baseline is already approaching the 100+50 mark, some thoughts below:


1) Using wild stats as "prestige" solves issues with stats and experience...but opens up major problems with stat inflation in the future.

2) Cutting off wild stat breeding altogether solves this, but hurts current super projects started in good faith that wild stats can breed.

3) Having a large drop (like 50%) per generation combined with experience boosts seems suprisingly doable... Current breeders still have projects that give a large boost (a +50 project will still give much better offspring than a +20 project, etc..), grinders can't destroy the max stat economy, but ppl can still bring their starters/favs to the top.

Basically, I really second Kaita's idea, but also strongly encourage the merging of wild stats with prestige/etc (using the same mechanic).

I think Prestige stats that do not pass on in breeding, but do take a pet up to the current max stats, is the fairest way to go about it. Also the most logical.

Prestige stats are acquired through battling, and not genetics. So I feel that they should not pass on genetically at all.

And aren't there going to be Super Stats available of the other Fabled breeds in the 3rd area of the Lost Grove?

Cheers!
C4.

I think the main issue, regardless of what is decided, is that all of these changes are made with significant warning beforehand. Last minute changes or accusations of abusing a mechanic that you never specified how it was supposed to be used in the first place are only going to alienate your playerbase, Krin.


1. & 2. & 6. Expired Tokens
Personally, it doesn't significantly affect me whether expired tokens give gold or not. I usually have 2-10k leftover tokens every fest because there is nothing worthwhile to spend them on. I don't care at all about avatar items because the fest zone floods my inventory already with stuff I'll never use, the token shop feels extremely overpriced for anything else, and honestly, spending tokens on anything usually feels like a waste because what you get for the amount of tokens always feels like a rip-off.

I occasionally go through and waste them all gambling for catalysts, but with stuff not auto-growing anymore, actually planting pets will probably be a waste of time as well.


3. & 5. Pets will no longer auto grow after a Festival completely ends.

What is the point of even planting pets, then, if there's a chance you'll never get them? And like Xav said in a previous post, the extra time at the end of a fest is absolutely useless because no one has any agents to actually grow the pets anyway by that point. Especially if agents no longer drop from the fest zone, meaning anyone who doesn't grind for days acquiring thousands and thousands of tokens to spend on agents is pretty much screwed. Not everyone is going to be sitting on millions of gold to buy from other players. So casual players won't be able to grow pets at all.


4. Festival growing items will mostly cease dropping from the Festival Zone.

Last fest growing agents were way too rare, and that coupled with the last-minute changes you enacted stressed a lot of people out unnecessarily. If there hadn't been multiple players with millions of gold and literal days to grind for agents going through and saving pets, a lot of people would have lost all the effort they'd have put in. Why even bother with a fest if the catalysts you were trying to get all fest only drop in the last few days? Sylestia, in general, was way too many gambling mechanics, and not enough guaranteed worthwhile return to justify a lot of the fest features. Taking away one of the guaranteed ways to at least get something feels like it's making growing pets a waste of time entirely.

For most of last fest, I didn't know that pets only grew when given agents - that was left out of the overview entirely, which meant a lot of scrambling and stress. The feature wasn't fun. Wasn't challenging. Wasn't even worthwhile, for the amount of effort put in. You need to be a lot more forthcoming about how exactly these features work, and how you expect the mechanics to work, because far too many times I've seen things 'nerfed' without any prior explanation to how they were expected to work - you can't blame players for using a feature a certain way when barely any information on how it should work was ever given in the first place.

Presumably some fests have pets grow over time without agents. Is that being nerfed too? Are agents the only way to grow pets now? This information absolutely needs to be in the fest overview for every single festival. Leaving out important information and then blaming players for playing the game in a way that makes sense to them, is really not okay. :/


7. Prestige Points

These would be nice on an individual pet, but don't make prestige passed on by breeding - that will devalue a lot of max stat projects. I am glad I only ever bought a few max stats, since with the mana increase and superstats available now, it would have been millions in wasted gold. I don't plan on buying any max pets again until there are super/200 mana maxed available, since anything less would be wasting gold and stable space at this point. Especially with the caves in the grove apparently requiring max stat + high ranked pets now. If the trend continues, max rank/max superstat will be needed for whatever comes next.

Prestige points would be nice for someone who has high ranked but not new-max pets, since it means they won't be left behind when they enter the caves. I'm sure it's possible for super strategic players to use non-maxed pets, but for ordinary/casual players, I can't imagine the caves being at all possible without high rank max stats. I certainly would find it completely impossible without max stats. Gaining ranks alone is way too tedious and boring to justify having more than a few teams anyway, and no one is ever going to sell high ranked pets because of how long and difficult it would be to rank - such a pet would likely be worth millions. And only maybe 2-3 players in the game could afford that.

I only recently managed to rank up my main team to 3-4 on most skills, and I have been using those 3 pets since the grove opened. It took me this long to rank up, so I can only imagine what a nightmare a new or casual player would have to face getting left out of all the new content because their pets get demolished. Sure, they can 'catch up' eventually, but it really sucks to feel like everyone else gets to see the shiny new stuff. Especially when catching up requires absurd amounts of tedium and grinding, which isn't remotely fun. At least prestige might help with that somewhat, since 90% of the grove feels like making zero progress or reward at the moment.


Maw of Madness

As with a lot of key-requiring things in fests, I will probably do it once and then skip it unless the rewards are interesting/useful. What is Expertise supposed to be? Is it going to give ranks to our pets? And how much exactly? Are we going to get buried in a lot of useless lost grove materials, with few real rewards? Will prestige points be enabled for this when we get experience, or would it be a waste to use level 70 pets?



And lastly, considering how hard it is for me personally to get gold, I've never really seen the inflation problem on Sylestia. I know we have a bunch of multi-millionaires around, but how does that compare with regular players? A lot of the gold nerfing seems to be aimed at punishing these players at the expense of everyone else. I'm sure that's not your intention, but that's what it feels like. I am constantly trying to save up for more stable tabs/diamonds/fest-exclusive stuff. I sit on a bunch of gold all the time because I don't know when I'll need it for something I missed because of Sylestia's gambling mechanics during a fest, or on stuff I'll need so I don't get left behind when a new grove area opens. I am still waiting to start doing projects because I'll need a few million more for new stables/tabs - that seems like what I spend 90% of my gold on, really, outside of festivals. And with the nerf to growing agents, spending hundreds of thousands of gold on catalysts likely won't be worthwhile anymore, at least. I'd personally like to see more that was worth spending gold on, with less gambling so that it didn't feel like a huge waste most of the time.