@Lost,

Not going to quote - because would make this post enormous lol.


I will try to be as concise as I can because we could probably have such a discussion for hours worth of text on all of the issues you discussed.

A lot of what you said I think is strongly associated to perspective. You are about as experienced and veteran as a player can be of Sylestia and it's a somewhat more rare perspective against our current active player base. If you can think back to our original Festivals back in say like 2014 and such, we would add about a couple dozen Avatar Items, a dozen or so Themed Pets, some new Traits, a Festival Zone, and a basic building feature.

At this point, we add 100-200 new Avatar Items, ~40+ new Themed Pets, a handful of various Features, (lately) a brand new Festival Zone, lots of Named and Nodes, etc. Festivals now provide, easily, 3x as much "stuff" as 2014/2015.

Back to perspective, you've seen it all and done it all. Avatar Item #2583 doesn't quite have the same feel as the 25th one did. Themed Pet #1000 doesn't quite feel as special as #1 did. And this is, literally, with anything in life. It's just how things work.

I noticed you often say things, "what do I have to show for it?"... or that you've gotten nothing, etc. Well, as I pointed out last night, you have already collected over 20 Avatar Items from this Festival within the first 6 days of a ~30 day Festival. That is probably more items than you collected from each of the first 3 Festivals you ever participated in.

I see that you have also encountered 9 wild Themed Pets so far. And an assortment of other Festival Items I am sure, but did not bother checking. You mentioned 2 Completed Snowmen. But I am sure you have more now as most Contest Reward Pouches will award 1 per.

But I think you (and many others, such as the players who don't even regularly log in anymore with exception to things like the Advent Calendar, but are waiting for new content like MZ), are just facing horizontal progression fatigue. Sylestia needs new vertical progression, absolutely no doubt about it. And the MZ will offer significant vertical progression for the first time in probably 2+ years.

Without new features to build on and add to, we are stuck with only horizontal progression and no matter how you dress it up, players will get fatigued when doing it repeatedly.

It is why we have tried to mix up features and make each festival somewhat different than the others. We have found and easily noticed in the statistics, when we repeat features festival after festival, participation and interest dramatically drops with every single time things are consecutively used.

In regards to "waiting", I don't really know what else to say. I can't make things magically appear. Either we can sit idle with literally zero of anything for long periods of time for more fleshed out things - or we can trickle what we can out as soon as we can like the Winter Festival.

Under no realistic circumstance could the Winter Festival have been any faster. The ONLY alternative would have been to of had no Winter Festival at all or have it released in mid or late January.

Also... keep in mind that Festivals now last for over 4 weeks. We are 6 days in to a 30 day Festival. That is 20% done where a lot of things have only been available for like 2 or 3 days so far.

Lastly, I think saying that nothing will change because it never does is an incredibly inaccurate statement. I have already changed things since they were first released lol... I always am changing things. I am not really sure how you can say that "nothing" ever changes. =| If you want to specifically say what doesn't change, then please specify. But it surely isn't nothing.


@Amaya,

Our active player base is actually more about ~2000. The number you see on the sidebar uses a very lofty criteria and really isn't all that accurate or true active players who actually play and do things. At our peak, I think that number was about 11-12 thousand. So it's dropped - mainly due to less advertising lately. We used to bring in about 50-100 new players a day. Now we're more focused on conversions than just raw referrals so we average about 35-50 new players a day.

Our active players during the Spring Festival was about 1700. Summer was about 1900. Fall 1900. And due to the Advent Calendar, Winter is about 2100. However, a lot of those log in purely because of the Advent Calendar and aren't really actively playing. If you noticed, We built up to about 1500 logging in a day at the end of the Advent Calendar and then on the 26th, it immediately dropped by about 300 lol. And the 2100 is still including those players for another like week or so.

Here's a great number I just parsed - a total of 2,086 unique players claimed from the Advent Calendar. So, at best if every single one of those players participated in the actual Festival (which they don't/won't), there's that as a maximum.

If I had to give an actual "active - I played at least 6 hours in a Festival" count, I'd guess somewhere around ~500-750 players.


@Zelly,

I am not sure where you got that we are taking away Themed Pets from... No, quite the contrary.

I had said that we are going to make the system more expansive and add more depth to them. I also said that the way Traits work will be more in depth and have systems built around them.

We are definitely not going to be toning down or removing Themed Pets.

You said you expected there to be "About 12 a year". That is kind of the polar opposite of expanding upon something to me.

(Have no idea what you're quoting from on the traits bit. I think you're talking about a completely different conversation you didn't have in front of me, since you did not talk about traits during this one at all. Just how you wanted way less themes a year and mostly limited to newer species).

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=55446&page=15#142 Author: Zelly Time Posted: 12/28/2017 at 6:10 PM You said you expected there to be "About 12 a year". That is kind of the polar opposite of expanding upon something to me. (Have no idea what you're quoting from on the traits bit. I think you're talking about a completely different conversation you didn't have in front of me, since you did not talk about traits during this one at all. Just how you wanted way less themes a year and mostly limited to newer species).

I didn't say that. =P

What I was saying about that was... we're going to be wanting to spread content out to be more static and long term...

So, rather than break ourselves and go crazy to push out all of this content for 4 weeks worth of exposure, we will release more long term features for, say, 3 months or something.

And if we end up doing that, then "Festivals" won't be like they are now. They will be more built in to all of the features of Sylestia. For example, instead of going to a Festival Zone, you'll find 'Festive' stuff in any of the normal zones as you just play the game normally and go about your normal Sylestia business.

For a lot of you, there is no normal Sylestia business. Your normal Sylestia business is missions for the billionth time earning Gold for the next 4 week burst of content. And that's because we haven't been able to release any vertical progression in forever - let alone our eventual relaunch where we add tons of new features, overhaul existing features, etc.

Now - if/when we start to be on that road of production - AND when we start to have 30+ unique species... then the holiday events will probably see something more like 1/3 of species getting a new Themed... rather than 1-2 per species. I mean, just think about it lol... if we have 30 or 40 different species down the road, are we really expected to somehow parse and release 80-100 new Themed Pets for a limited Halloween event? Lol, that would be absurd and waste so much of our time and effort and just not be enjoyable for anyone.

So instead - when this happens - years down the road - we will trickle content out throughout the entire year rather than these just big bursts of "one and done" content.


But... no. Themed are not going anywhere. We have many ideas for Themed and Pet Traits that will be introduced with our relaunch that will greatly expand those features.

And, the MZ, for the first time, will offer a lot of new Themed in an actual zone that isn't a limited Festival Zone. That is a glimpse into the direction we want to go.

This is pretty far from how it sounded the other day, in region chat at some ungodly hour, but, yanno, if we could maybe get our site newsflashes in a bit of a less temporary location this fest than region chat, maybe we wouldn't be so confused by the future plans. ;P

I even said 'I'd rather you cycle in the really old theme sets (The ones that have a lot sat on inactive accounts, most of which only have one carried trait, from the first year for instance), than nearly get rid of them' and you didn't say anything to say you were not mostly getting rid of them.

I still think i'd rather see the oldest theme sets get another cycle through, regardless. There may be many many themes, but as time goes on, some of those older themes have far less numbers on active accounts, and less opportunities for newer players to get ahold of them or to get newer genes and mutations. A good example would be the very first Fall Fest themes, where if you wanted to go do a breeding project of these.. well.. good luck on that..

Dead accounts may still hold enough of these pets they don't statistically 'look' rare by the numbers to you, but being on a dead account makes them effectively useless.

Ok, I have to say I think certain drops are /off/

I've got 3 attires, 0 accessories, and 76 branches. The branches drop way too much. not sure if nutcrackers can drop accessories, l,..its very rough. Id rather use my snowmen for essences. I understand if you're gonna look at drops once all the other features are in, but please do pay special attention at how much branches there are.

I know others are having a bit of an issue with trying to get the necessary items to make snowmen too, i just think branches are a bit too frequent.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=55446&page=15#144 Author: Zelly Time Posted: 12/28/2017 at 6:37 PM This is pretty far from how it sounded the other day, in region chat at some ungodly hour, but, yanno, if we could maybe get our site newsflashes in a bit of a less temporary location this fest than region chat, maybe we wouldn't be so confused by the future plans. ;P I even said 'I'd rather you cycle in the really old theme sets (The ones that have a lot sat on inactive accounts, most of which only have one carried trait, from the first year for instance), than nearly get rid of them' and you didn't say anything to say you were not mostly getting rid of them. I still think i'd rather see the oldest theme sets get another cycle through, regardless. There may be many many themes, but as time goes on, some of those older themes have far less numbers on active accounts, and less opportunities for newer players to get ahold of them or to get newer genes and mutations. A good example would be the very first Fall Fest themes, where if you wanted to go do a breeding project of these.. well.. good luck on that.. Dead accounts may still hold enough of these pets they don't statistically 'look' rare by the numbers to you, but being on a dead account makes them effectively useless.

Very valid points.

I am usually multi tasking going through the chat response so it's very possible I miss quite a few of your guys' questions. And yes, region chat is not the best mode of communication for announcements lol. Unfortunately, writing up lengthy posts takes time (I spent about 60-90 minutes writing my responses here in this thread just now), and my time is quite limited atm. I also try not to barrage you guys with a billion pings about every update I make and try to save site wide pings for events or major updates.

For Themed, I think there's a lot we can still do - what we kinda have planned for the future and things we don't. You guys love them and we will always be sure to keep them a mainstream component of Sylestia and try to further integrate them into the game.

As for old Themed, I think my initial hesitation is that some of the older Themed are very, very plentiful and - at least whenever the last time I checked, which was some time ago, not very valuable to you guys as a whole. So I'd hesitate to re-release them. I am not sure how well those Themed would be.

But we have over 800 total Themed Pets now, so obviously, they are in all sorts of different positions. It would really require a hands on approach with some behind the scenes number crunching to figure out what should be re-released and what shouldn't. Atm, I am just focused on other things. But definitely a possibility at some point down the road.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=55446&page=15#145 Author: Littlemissmoriarty Time Posted: 12/28/2017 at 6:48 PM Ok, I have to say I think certain drops are /off/ I've got 3 attires, 0 accessories, and 76 branches. The branches drop way too much. not sure if nutcrackers can drop accessories, l,..its very rough. Id rather use my snowmen for essences. I understand if you're gonna look at drops once all the other features are in, but please do pay special attention at how much branches there are. I know others are having a bit of an issue with trying to get the necessary items to make snowmen too, i just think branches are a bit too frequent.

What would you say creates the most? Nodes or random Enemies?

Just wondering to know what to specifically look at, as each has their own drop table that slightly varies.

I...do think you've missed the point of my response...entirely.


First off...quoted from my original message. "I also have noticed, as i said in region before, that the avi drops do seem to be a bit increased." I am entirely aware that i have collected a decent handful of the avi items for this fest. And i made sure to mention that i do, in fact, feel like the fest has gotten a decent increase int he droprates and that i was thankful for that.

"I see that you have also encountered 9 wild Themed Pets so far. And an assortment of other Festival Items I am sure, but did not bother checking. You mentioned 2 Completed Snowmen. But I am sure you have more now as most Contest Reward Pouches will award 1 per."
I have found 6 themed eggs, but seen very few themeds in the wild outside of that. a portion of those eggs were from the temple. However, im...not even talking about themeds? I personally don't collect the zone themeds, and made no mention of them in my original message. (and if i did, it wasnt in much detail)
As for the snowmen, which honestly is what this entire thing has really been mostly about, yes. i got...3? more from contest pouches. Including the 2 from advent...i have a grand total of 8 snowmen. Which is a far cry from the 40 i would need for /just one/ maj fressence. Nevermind /any amount of others/.

So let's do a bit more math here. we are 6 days in. after those 6 days, i have managed to obtain a total of 6 snowmen. (Im not including advent because that was a one time thing and will skew the data). thats 1 snowman a day.
Alright. fest lasts 30 days. That means, by the end of the fest, that is....exactly 30 snowmen (pretty simple math here imo). And thats going off of every day having the same ability to play and not taking into account days where the contests arent running so no way to obtain the contest pouches. 30 snowmen is 2 fabled, OR 6 regulars. No majestics. No items to /make/ those pets (although yes, those drop decently from the zone so we'll assume we obtained those items via exploration since we basically gotta devote our lives to exploring anyway to even get this far.)
As for tokens. Currently, i have 2.6k after 6 days. So we'll say about 434 a day. 434 a day for 30 days, thats 13020 tokens for the entire fest. Thats all of 4 premium frost essences from the fest shop. Which is a bit etter than the snowmen but not by much, and then its all luck if you even get what you want. Again, no hope of getting a majestic here either, since those arent available in the fest shop.

Thats nowhere near the amount that someone gets from buying the diamond shop bundles. which is where my point was entirely missed to begin with. Was the pay to win aspects of this fest. at this point, without shelling out the money to buy one or both of the bundles, going off of grinding for the past 6 days fairly actively, its not possible to get more than a very small handful of frost essences, and none of those would be majestics. Which also means things like the task list are not obtainable, because theres no way, at the rate i've been going, for me to be able to get any of those frost essence based tasks. So, only pay to win players have any hope of obtaining those prizes, which oh look, are more of those items that free to play players can't really think of obtaining atm. /Thats/ my point. is that this fest, is in fact ver pay to win.

"Lastly, I think saying that nothing will change because it never does is an incredibly inaccurate statement. I have already changed things since they were first released lol... I always am changing things. I am not really sure how you can say that "nothing" ever changes. =| If you want to specifically say what doesn't change, then please specify. But it surely isn't nothing."
There have been quite a few times where things have been brought up, such as overpricing etc, that were never fixed because, in your words exactly, it was "too late to change it". There may be an incident or two hidden int he forum archives somewhere but seeing as i have to spend my life grinding away to get a single pair of frost puffs, i don't really have time to hunt them down. Most of the time they are said in gc or region though, so don't really have records of that.

I also want to point out, that all of that math was done without considering irl commitments. That would be in a perfect world where everyone can spend every day online. (personally, i have school and work starting back up in over a week so will lose a majority of my site time to that. Bu i wanted to leave that out of the initial mathwork as a more general idea)


EDIT: forgot to mention as well, but as someone else already mentioned, i've gotten branchesx3 from basically every named all day. and quite a bit from boxes as well. ive gotten maybe 3 snowballs and nothing else for snowmen. Idk about random battles, sicne im battling for boards i dont really pay attention much to what drops until i go into my inventory.

If I had to do a small list...

1. Random enemies
2. Bosses.

Nodes are fine I think I rarely get the other items but they do come out okay even with how much I go around in circles.
...I don't think I've seen many branches from nodes, but those 2 up there are what I've been seeing the most. I had 2 bosses drop 3x branches in a row about an hour ago. Might have been more, but didn't start noticing them really until then. About the same time, Rikaheart was getting 3x branches from her boss as well.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=55446&page=15#149 Author: Littlemissmoriarty Time Posted: 12/28/2017 at 7:04 PM If I had to do a small list... 1. Random enemies 2. Bosses. Nodes are fine I think I rarely get the other items but they do come out okay even with how much I go around in circles. ...I don't think I've seen many branches from nodes, but those 2 up there are what I've been seeing the most. I had 2 bosses drop 3x branches in a row about an hour ago. Might have been more, but didn't start noticing them really until then. About the same time, Rikaheart was getting 3x branches from her boss as well.

Yea - the boss drops were a bit off (since I adjusted and increased the amounts awarded). But that would have only been since about 12 hours ago or so when I made that change.

The other drops should mostly be alright, but I won't really be able to adjust them further without running some scripts and figuring out all of the drop spreads - which I'll do after I get these last 2 features released.