I'll just say what I said in the region chat earlier.

When we make the species, it is me asking the artists to give the girls eyelashes and make them appear girly. I ask them to do it because I like my girl pets to be more visually girly. And I do not think there is anything wrong with that.





Here is a picture of a male polar bear and a female polar. There are obvious differences. The male is much larger and broader while the female is much more svelte. Just because she is smaller than he is doesn't mean that she isn't to be feared. I would still run for my life from the girl bear. And it's not just with bears. Pretty much all species in nature are distinguishable by gender. Many males have horns where the females do not. Many males are more broad and muscular than females. And vice versa, many females are larger than males. But pretty much every species in nature has differences between the males and females.

Now, our art style on the site is catered to be more cartoony.



Like the above picture, our female pets have eyelashes and just in general tend to feel more dainty. This is a style choice that we have made for our website. We won't be deviating from it because we as the creators are choosing to go with that style since we personally like it. We aren't trying to make any sort of social statements or anything in that nature. Just with my female cartoon pets...I want them to be girly, so I request to the artist that they be so. And I am not going to change that, because that is how I want them to be.

Also, not all of our female species are overtly girly. I don't feel like all of them are girly...the female Ny'Vene I don't think is overtly girly, the female Aurleon isn't overtly girly. It also can go the other way with the males...I think the male Aeridini and the male Luffox aren't 'tough manly' looking...they look cute just like their female counterparts. It totally depends on the species.

We also WANT there to be differences with the male and females of our species. Otherwise, what would be the point of drawing separate linearts? We made that decision in the very beginning when deciding on having separate bases for the males and females.

I absolutely adore the redraw, and that's all I have to say, personally. *v* Thanks for listening to our suggestions.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=22276&page=14#133 Author: Entropy Time Posted: 2/8/2015 at 12:01 AM I just wanted to get this comment out there for this revamp and all future revamps because I've been seeing some comments going in the opposite direction. Please, please keep the sexual dimorphism to a minimum? Most of the species that are the primary example for these pets don't look especially different when it comes to male and female and I kind of hate it when the two pets look as if they're completely different species. Case in point would be the current morkko, which makes me quite sad to see. An example of after the revamp would be the vulnyx, which I do love dearly but they really look quite different to me and I don't like that. This revamp in particular is kind of on a thin line for me, it's extremely obvious which one the female is, she's quite small and girly and "dainty" looking and I just. Kind of wish she wasn't quite so much? Honestly this redraw looks very nice and it's not a big enough difference to put me off much, but I really wish that the two pets wouldn't quite be so...Obvious about the gender difference. I really enjoy the Draeyl, Griffi, and Nytekrie in that respect. They're clearly different genders but the female and male still look distinctly similar. And while I know these pets have a distinctly human influence in pose and expression and all, because we want to connect with them...Just. Please. Don't make it so that the male always has to be "tough and sturdy and serious" while the female is "dainty and smiling." I do like that honestly, the females usually are my preferred pet because they're more interesting/pretty to look at. I guess I'm just trying to say that...I love the human influence in the pets, and I know making them distinct from the other gender gives more personality but just...Try to keep it kind of minimal? It bothers me a little seeing the same thing in the genders of all the pets, and the calls for making the pets even more "masculine" and "feminine" and taking away from the fact that most animals aren't that different it just...Well it gets to me a little. Not trying to kick up a huge fuss or sound whiny or anything. I'm loving all the revamps, all the art has really been improved. Just...Food for thought, maybe?

All of this

Just wanted to say I LOVE LOVE LOVE the new smirk!!

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=22276&page=16#154 Author: Barcode454 Time Posted: 2/8/2015 at 3:16 AM Just wanted to say I LOVE LOVE LOVE the new smirk!!

All of this is regarding the new edits on the new line art vs old edits on the new line art NOT old design to revamp

I was gonna say, I too like the new smirk mainly because it made males look more interesting to look at.It gives them a little more to look at rather than a neutral expression that is a little bland and frankly makes then look like they dislike everything.A good example of females being better to look at are luporas the males have a really static and emotionally unappealing base in that sense and the females have a lot of attitude in their face and posture. This makes them a bit funner not only in lupora but other species. Now I'm not saying that all of the species need to look happy and like everything is fine, in fact for quite a few species this would make them not as fitting as a 'grumpy' or 'non-revealing' counterpart. The Lighira for instance, on the male and female alike their lack of expression makes them seem more majestic, more high and mighty if you will. For the male zolnixi I don't think this fits very much and i would appreciate the smirk being put back on.

For the other details the jaws slimmed down isn't something I altogether like it makes the ending point of the head seem all to abrupt, for me it makes the proportions off.I also don't like how they look so much fluffier they got differed zolnixis have a sleeker appearance and don't match many of the other 'furballs' on the site part of why they are one of the more unique species. Like the females ear it looks a little bulky with that fluff on the edge also making it, again for me, look a little disjointed.

But otherwise great job with this revamp I know you guys put so much work in to this site and I appreciate that. Now I can barely wait for the sylvorpa revamp and this one alike, kudos.

YAY FOR THE MALE SMIRK!!! That looks much better.

I however think the male pups muzzle is perfect. To whomever said that there's something wrong with it (sorry, I'm horrible with remembering names and there may have been more than one person whommade this particular comment and I'm on a tablet to boot) don't forget hes looking right at us. To make his muzzle long with the way he's positioned would throw everything off. His muzzle is proportional to the way he's positioned. However, the male pups ruff needs to be adjusted. He needs not so much on top and I'd love to see some chest fluff on him. Don't take too much ruff off of him though as it'd make him look odd.

Ah girlies fuzzier ears are great :D! love!

The redraw is great. The ears look better now and so does the snout.

Nice. Definitely looks a bit more slimmer and streamlined.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=22276&page=16#151 Author: Faiona Time Posted: 2/8/2015 at 1:42 AM I'll just say what I said in the region chat earlier. When we make the species, it is me asking the artists to give the girls eyelashes and make them appear girly. I ask them to do it because I like my girl pets to be more visually girly. And I do not think there is anything wrong with that. Here is a picture of a male polar bear and a female polar. There are obvious differences. The male is much larger and broader while the female is much more svelte. Just because she is smaller than he is doesn't mean that she isn't to be feared. I would still run for my life from the girl bear. And it's not just with bears. Pretty much all species in nature are distinguishable by gender. Many males have horns where the females do not. Many males are more broad and muscular than females. And vice versa, many females are larger than males. But pretty much every species in nature has differences between the males and females. Now, our art style on the site is catered to be more cartoony. Like the above picture, our female pets have eyelashes and just in general tend to feel more dainty. This is a style choice that we have made for our website. We won't be deviating from it because we as the creators are choosing to go with that style since we personally like it. We aren't trying to make any sort of social statements or anything in that nature. Just with my female cartoon pets...I want them to be girly, so I request to the artist that they be so. And I am not going to change that, because that is how I want them to be. Also, not all of our female species are overtly girly. I don't feel like all of them are girly...the female Ny'Vene I don't think is overtly girly, the female Aurleon isn't overtly girly. It also can go the other way with the males...I think the male Aeridini and the male Luffox aren't 'tough manly' looking...they look cute just like their female counterparts. It totally depends on the species. We also WANT there to be differences with the male and females of our species. Otherwise, what would be the point of drawing separate linearts? We made that decision in the very beginning when deciding on having separate bases for the males and females.

I totally get this. Normally I'm very much about the gender neutral options, but I think the reasoning here makes perfect sense, and that giving some visual indications of sexual dimorphism in the species is useful. As a biologist (though I do specialize in plants, I have always loved and been fascinated by animals) I think the redraws so far (save perhaps the Vulnyx, though that is still minor) have been FANTASTIC in this regard -- the Draeyl, Qitari, Sylvorpa, and Zolnixi all look like the males and females belong to the same species and have minor differences which set them apart. A lot of the newer (fabled) species are great this way, too. I am loving the ravamps for this reason.

I think the issue becomes when they end up looking too different, and not in a way that makes biological sense -- many have raised the Morkko as an example, and I think that's a legitimate critique. They look FAR more different than the polar bear photo you posted, and are stylized differently to enhance the difference between the sexes. For example, lets look at these two side-by-side:


The female Morkkos eyes are huge compared to the males. Like twice the size -- which if you look at the polar bears (or any real animals, humans included) is not the case. The eyelashes (which on most species don't bother me) are too long and feathery to look like they belong on a bear. I think keeping them but moving them to the outside of her eyes and making them smaller (like in the cartoon fox example above) would be much more effective at conveying "girliness" without looking out of place. Her nose is also much smaller relative to the size of her snout, which seems strange, though maybe it's just the angle.

I think my biggest issue with them, though, is the decorative swirly tufts of fur at the top of their ears. They should either be the same size on both sexes, or larger and more showy on the male. That's just how the majority of cases of sexual selection work -- males get larger horns or flashy tail feathers to attract a mate, and these extra traits can be costly and denote to females the quality of the males which are fighting for her attention. This is how it works in most any species in which the female bears the children and/or raises them. In a few species this is reversed, where the males provide the majority of parental care (for example, sea horses), but as for the species that most Sylestis are based on, that is not the case. To have the male be larger and tougher but have the female displaying costly decorative traits makes no biological sense.

I think it's issues of the biology of the species such as that which need to be taken into account with future redraws. This still allows plenty of room for the artists to play with the stylization and posing of the male and female models! I have full confidence that all of these upcoming revamps will be as wonderful as the ones we've already seen :)

Okay, getting a bit off topic now, so back to the discussion of the Zolnixis!