Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=85951&page=15#149 Author: Falkinsey Time Posted: 2/14/2020 at 12:53 PM This looks better than the first proposal :) I do think that the fest is skewing the figures but fests exist for a good part of the year. I just wonder if a nice round 50 diamonds or 5,000 scales might be possible? :P

It's just going to be really hard to properly price the Nurture Boost atm until I have significant more data.

I would actually like to use some sort of shifting scale pricing system based on current supply/demand of Nurturing. However, again, this would require a lot more data for me to properly set it up.

I would be surprised if the price remains at a static 60/5000 for the long term future. But I think it's a fair pricing point for this current moment in time.

I like your math! :D

But I am "iffy" on the price of getting this done in scales. So here's my math.

I gauge values in lesser pet dyes - typically the number one thing I need, so I know these numbers well.

1k scales = 1 pet dye = ~100k gold on average, varying based on festival prices (as low as 50k with a 75k average) v non-festival prices (125k average, with 150k during major droughts of nearly no dyes at all.)

5,000 scales = 5 pet dyes = 500k gold.

Diamond exchange rate is usually floating around ~2000 - 2,500 gold per diamond.

60 diamonds = 120k - 150k gold based on those rates. I'll stick with the high rate of 2,500 gold per.


500k > 150k gold


By those numbers, I think 5,000 scales is a bit too high to make it worth it. People would be better off getting 5 pet dyes with their 5k scales, selling those dyes, and then buying diamonds off the exchange to get ~3x more pets boosted.


*Yes, I realize this is all being based on the value of pet dyes, and pet dye values are subject to change based on how nurturing and scale collection is ultimately going to affect everything. But for values to roughly even out, pet dyes would have to drop to 30k each which I doubt will ever happen. (The math there being 5k scales = 5 pet dyes x 30k each = 150k gold = 60 diamonds at average exchange rate.)


I counter propose a change of 2,000 scales for nurture boost?

2k scales = 2 pet dyes = 200k gold average value. Significantly closer to the 150k worth of diamond exchange value, and almost equal to it for the lower average of 75k per pet dye during festival time.

Maybe 2,500 scales to accommodate a potential drop in the value of pet dyes.


Edit:
Well, someone just dropped a ton of pet dyes on the broker for 65k each
_{*walks off with significantly lighter pockets*}

I'm going to lean towards 2,500 scales now if this becomes a regular value. But it looks like scales were possibly recent, and with increased egg/hatchling growth the double scales reward from boosted pets, and the increased price of boosting them, the amount of scales earned will be lessened soon so I doubt it.

Nurturing rates are over 200% higher than average from what I can discern. In the past 24 hours alone, there have been over 250,000 Nurtures.


Well... I'm only nurturing 500 pets a day for the Week of Love. I wouldn't do it otherwise :')

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=85951&page=16#152 Author: Xavion Time Posted: 2/14/2020 at 1:07 PM I like your math! :D But I am "iffy" on the price of getting this done in scales. So here's my math. I gauge values in lesser pet dyes - typically the number one thing I need, so I know these numbers well. 1k scales = 1 pet dye = ~100k gold on average, varying based on festival prices (as low as 50k with a 75k average) v non-festival prices (125k average, with 150k during major droughts of nearly no dyes at all.) 5,000 scales = 5 pet dyes = 500k gold. Diamond exchange rate is usually floating around ~2000 - 2,500 gold per diamond. 60 diamonds = 120k - 150k gold based on those rates. I'll stick with the high rate of 2,500 gold per. 500k > 150k gold By those numbers, I think 5,000 scales is a bit too high to make it worth it. People would be better off getting 5 pet dyes with their 5k scales, selling those dyes, and then buying diamonds off the exchange to get ~3x more pets boosted. *Yes, I realize this is all being based on the value of pet dyes, and pet dye values are subject to change based on how nurturing and scale collection is ultimately going to affect everything. But for values to roughly even out, pet dyes would have to drop to 30k each which I doubt will ever happen. (The math there being 5k scales = 5 pet dyes x 30k each = 150k gold = 60 diamonds at average exchange rate.) I counter propose a change of 2,000 scales for nurture boost? 2k scales = 2 pet dyes = 200k gold average value. Significantly closer to the 150k worth of diamond exchange value, and almost equal to it for the lower average of 75k per pet dye during festival time. Maybe 2,500 scales to accommodate a potential drop in the value of pet dyes. Edit: Well, someone just dropped a ton of pet dyes on the broker for 65k each *walks off with significantly lighter pockets* I'm going to lean towards 2,500 scales now if this becomes a regular value. But it looks like scales were possibly recent, and with increased egg/hatchling growth the double scales reward from boosted pets, and the increased price of boosting them, the amount of scales earned will be lessened soon so I doubt it.

There's a few factors that I think have to be considered. One is what you mentioned in that Lesser Pet Dyes have their own varying demand and are not really solidly indicative of the intrinsic value of Diamonds to Scales due to the immense amount of extra variables.

Two is that Scales are way easier to earn now than before. The value of Scales are essentially "How many can I earn in x period of time?" The answer to that has dramatically increased in the past week. The effects of that increase will take a considerably longer amount of time to reflect.

Third is that I have plans to add much more depth to the Scale Shop and what you can do with Scales. This will increase the demand for Scales and reduce the presence of, say, Lesser Pet Dyes - I'd hope. This will then cause Lesser Pet Dyes to become more expensive in Gold - theoretically - and bring your comparison more in line with 5,000 Scales than 2,000 Scales.


All in all, I think there are too many moving parts atm with Scales to really come up with an absolute value for them relative to say, Diamonds. I would like to set prices based on where I'd like to see them shift towards as time goes on when coupled with the other changes/additions I have planned for the near-ish future.

And of course, nothing is forever set in stone. I can see how the playerbase reacts to the changes and get some real data and then adjust from there accordingly.

*mourns the thought of pet dyes becoming even more expensive*

I still think this is the biggest negative when it comes to encouraging projects.

Want to dye that ugly dishwater mess to that pretty design you have in the generator?

Welp, you're going to need about 12 dyes if it even has the potential for 6-vis (because no one wants an ugly visible trait), and with a fail margin of ~30% make that 16 dyes just to get close to a decent final result with lesser dyes.

Even at the cheapest 50k per lesser dye, that's 800k per pet, Krin. To get the actual pair to make it a project so offspring can be bred and sold, that's 1.6 million gold at the golden-laced advantage of 50k per dyes and being all but blessed by color RNG which tends to turn things like pale PURPLE into YELLOW; total opposite side of the color wheel. (And more realistically we're talking ~80k per dyes to get that many, so almost 2 million gold worth with this wonderful imaginary success rate, rather than more realistic fails which means you'll need ~20 dyes per pet. Usually I'm spending ~4 million gold worth of dyes for a single project pair.)

Think these mass breeding "buy my dishwater pets pls ;__; " players will ever get enough to dye a full project?

'Cause I don't >_>;


But that's an entirely different issue...

I just hope that, if you're planning to rework the scale shop, you keep that in mind. Pet dyes don't need to be more expensive x_x;

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=85951&page=16#155 Author: Xavion Time Posted: 2/14/2020 at 1:34 PM *mourns the thought of pet dyes becoming even more expensive* I still think this is the biggest negative when it comes to encouraging projects. Want to dye that ugly dishwater mess to that pretty design you have in the generator? Welp, you're going to need about 12 dyes if it even has the potential for 6-vis (because no one wants an ugly visible trait), and with a fail margin of ~30% make that 16 dyes just to get close to a decent final result with lesser dyes. Even at the cheapest 50k per lesser dye, that's 800k per pet, Krin. To get the actual pair to make it a project so offspring can be bred and sold, that's 1.6 million gold at the golden-laced advantage of 50k per dyes and being all but blessed by color RNG which tends to turn things like pale PURPLE into YELLOW; total opposite side of the color wheel. (And more realistically we're talking ~80k per dyes to get that many, so almost 2 million gold worth with this wonderful imaginary success rate, rather than more realistic fails which means you'll need ~20 dyes per pet. Usually I'm spending ~4 million gold worth of dyes for a single project pair.) Think these mass breeding "buy my dishwater pets pls ;__; " players will ever get enough to dye a full project? 'Cause I don't >_>; But that's an entirely different issue... I just hope that, if you're planning to rework the scale shop, you keep that in mind. Pet dyes don't need to be more expensive x_x;

I mean, I myself wouldn't be making them more expensive. It'd just be how the natural supply/demand of the game's economy would fall. Scales have to have more of a purpose than just simply running the Lesser Pet Dye factory. =P

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=85951&page=16#156 Author: Krinadon Time Posted: 2/14/2020 at 1:37 PM [quote=2004675] I mean, I myself wouldn't be making them more expensive. It'd just be how the natural supply/demand of the game's economy would fall. Scales have to have more of a purpose than just simply running the Lesser Pet Dye factory. =P

I like this line of development.

It sounds interesting (more things in the scale shop, or more depth to it) yet the pet dyes, and other items, won't be increased in price.

It also think that if you are buying in pure gold, yes, they will get more expensive, because if there are more desireable things to buy then fewer people will spend on lesser pet dyes (at least to sell).

But for those like me who plan to get all their dyes through nurturing, nothing actually changes.

Haha, oh I know it'd be a supply and demand thing outside of your direct control, where less people would use scales to get dyes since there'd be better things to buy with scales.

But...

If the future changes do end up leading to a tragic drought of lesser dye availability and the already-plenty-high-enough-cost-of-getting-a-project-pair-dyed gets even worse, maybe a future adjustment to their cost in the scale shop so they can still be reasonably accessible would be nice?

All distant future stuff (and maybe a little off topic) - scale shop isn't changing just yet - but I do hope it's something you'll keep in mind when the time comes.

I would miss the pet dye factories; I've been giving them all of my gold for years! XD

Hopefully, the last Site Announcement regarding this issue. I do apologize for the barrage on this topic, but it is a very important issue that had to be quickly resolved.

Here are the final changes that are now active moving forward:

-Every 6 Nurtures on Egglings Adds +1 Maturity

-Every 8 Nurtures on Hatchlings Adds +1 Stat Boost (same algorithm as before)

-Every 4 Nurtures on Hatchlings Adds +1 Maturity

-Cost of Nurture Boost increases to 60 Diamonds or 5,000 Scales
*Price Change Goes into effect at Midnight*


Any pets that benefited from the previous system will remain untouched. I do not think that there would be a fair or reasonable way to nerf those Pets. We can all just consider them freaks of nature - or perhaps freaks of 'nurture'.

As has been discussed prior, I will continue closely monitoring Nurturing, the Nurturing Grounds, and Nurture Boosting for the foreseeable future until I'm completely satisfied with the results. So it's very likely that some more changes could come about in the near future.

Thank you again for the feedback and I hope that this can be seen as a fair compromise on the issue.

Thanks for the continued work Krin, Hope we're not keeping you too busy this lovely Friday