I won't say much as I'd like to process first since I was offline for quite a while but

I think it's important to look at things from all angles. While there were mistakes on both sides, as has been mentioned before, I think context also matters.

Were the messages sent in jest? Was there any attempt to reach out privately on either side? How many actual discussions had actual action follow? And if information was gathered for these players, and should people in the discord who weren't banned be concerned about their private information? A lot of people like to link their Spotify or socials in thier profiles, and people often share irl stuff on places like Discord where an ivite link is usually required to get in.

I can see where both sides are coming from, but I do have quesitons.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=3#22 Author: Neytiri875 Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 3:44 AM I don't feel this was right at all. Fox was banned for knowing what's on legal public record because you own a business. This is a private server made for people to rent and vent frustrations. As for selling lower priced pets? Seriously makes me want to quit the site. The amount of stalking off this site is concerning to me. What was done on site. Fine. What was said off site. Not fine considering that discord is not tied to the site and there are also people not on site on that server. I support bringing fox and ael back. Especially because ael feels they did nothing wrong and just woke up one day to being banned. Iif I were any of the ones who got banned talking in a rant discord from that and not breaking rules just frustrated, even jokes taken out of context I'd feel incredibly violated. Are you going to stalk us too? Wherever we are offsite?

This is more of a threat, not a rant imo

We have removed the screenshots as
we feel that there is no more benefit from leaving them up.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=15#143 Author: Atriella Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 3:07 PM I disagree, by the economic rationale being used here, I could be banned for simply choosing to lower prices on my max stats to match current market value, or for giving away teams of max stats because Im in a good mood, both of which Ive done before. My point is that I cant see the validity of considering perceived intent when the outcome is the same either way. Whats the difference between them lowering prices or someone selling fertile max stats at low prices to make money quickly? because Ive seen that happen dozens of times without repercussions. It seems like a thin line to draw, and I choose to disagree. Edited to add: I am not okay with any sort of harassment of players or staff, on-site or off, so the people targeted have my deepest sympathies.

I believe it is the culmination of all of these things. If all this was just things said in private I don't think anything would have happened, venting is fine. I think it was the harassment, the intent and plan to harm people and their reputations over false accusations (swatting, spreading lies that the admins are homophobic, etc), and then carrying out actions to harm the site itself on purpose to further make everyone's lives/jobs harder---> led to the bans.

None of these things exist in a vacuum of any one offense on its own. It wasn't just harassment on admin socials, or just market manipulation, or just trying to convince people the admins are hateful bigots, or just trying to corral a bunch of users into a new discord to hear their one side of things that Krin is just paranoid and doing this for no reason. It was all of these things together doing harm to admins, users, and the site itself. It's taken as a sum total, and there were evidently a lot of things happening.

(Regarding intent. Intent does matter or else we wouldn't have crimes like stalking or attempted murder. Stalking isn't actively physically hurting someone, but it's terrifying and can lead to worse crimes. Attempted murder isn't murder, but it could have been. Intent matters, and all this splitting hairs is obfuscating the point that these users were harmful to people and the site. )

You need not worry about having low prices, or doing giveaways, or toothless venting in private (#1 rule of chats like this should be do not actually harm the people you are talking about). I hope that this clears some things up as this is my understanding of the situation, I'm really trying to see both sides. I know a lot of people are confused and worried, completely understandable, I just hope my perspective brings some relief.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=17#163 Author: Fimbry Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 3:58 PM [quote=2699127] I believe it is the culmination of all of these things. If all this was just things said in private I don't think anything would have happened, venting is fine. I think it was the harassment, the intent and plan to harm people and their reputations over false accusations (swatting, spreading lies that the admins are homophobic, etc), and then carrying out actions to harm the site itself on purpose to further make everyone's lives/jobs harder---> led to the bans. None of these things exist in a vacuum of any one offense on its own. It wasn't just harassment on admin socials, or just market manipulation, or just trying to convince people the admins are hateful bigots, or just trying to corral a bunch of users into a new discord to hear their one side of things that Krin is just paranoid and doing this for no reason. It was all of these things together doing harm to admins, users, and the site itself. It's taken as a sum total, and there were evidently a lot of things happening. (Regarding intent. Intent does matter or else we wouldn't have crimes like stalking or attempted murder. Stalking isn't actively physically hurting someone, but it's terrifying and can lead to worse crimes. Attempted murder isn't murder, but it could have been. Intent matters, and all this splitting hairs is obfuscating the point that these users were harmful to people and the site. ) You need not worry about having low prices, or doing giveaways, or toothless venting in private (#1 rule of chats like this should be do not actually harm the people you are talking about). I hope that this clears some things up as this is my understanding of the situation, I'm really trying to see both sides. I know a lot of people are confused and worried, completely understandable, I just hope my perspective brings some relief.

really good point on this end, very well summarized i think.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=16#159 Author: Shastasnow Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 3:51 PM [quote=2699141] Some opinions do matter. Remember that. And sometimes, they can come off as insensitive and hurtful. Sometimes they are just from another perspective. Your process to rationalize and justify words and actions that are out of your control is coming off as irrational. This isn't Youtube. Just lumping yourself into something you know you probably should not. It is not as extreme as it looks. You make agreements when you play games; could you make sure to read them? Can you help others to defend themselves from this harmful and hostile crowd? If you feel bad for them, that is fine, but they made their choices and actions clear and known.

I am well aware of all of that. I can see your point, but I think youre failing to see mine. And my response before was in response to your comment about having better things to do with my time. You are no more entitled to reply to this thread than I am.
Anyone who was harassing people deserved the ban they received- no argument there.
However, I dont agree with banning people on the basis that they voiced a desire to destabilize the economy.
It is perfectly within ToS to do whatever you choose with the pets you own, this includes lowering prices, releasing, giving them away, whatever. My point is that I dont think it is fair to ban people on the basis that it was perceived that they wanted to destabilize the economy. The actions werent against the rules. The intent should not matter when someone else would not be banned for exactly the same actions.

I dont want to argue with you. Its unlikely that youll change your mind, and regardless of what you say, I wont be changing my mind. Feel free to respond if you want, but I wont be responding to you any further.
I dont agree with harassment, but I also have no intention to stick around and financially support a game that would ban someone, not over actions, but over something they said off site that led people to perceive their intentions, when the same actions wouldnt lead to a ban for someone else.

No that is saying they live with someone who has experienced it.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=17#165 Author: Atriella Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 4:00 PM [quote=2699152] I am well aware of all of that. I can see your point, but I think youre failing to see mine. And my response before was in response to your comment about having better things to do with my time. You are no more entitled to reply to this thread than I am. Anyone who was harassing people deserved the ban they received- no argument there. However, I dont agree with banning people on the basis that they voiced a desire to destabilize the economy. It is perfectly within ToS to do whatever you choose with the pets you own, this includes lowering prices, releasing, giving them away, whatever. My point is that I dont think it is fair to ban people on the basis that it was perceived that they wanted to destabilize the economy. The actions werent against the rules. The intent should not matter when someone else would not be banned for exactly the same actions. I dont want to argue with you. Its unlikely that youll change your mind, and regardless of what you say, I wont be changing my mind. Feel free to respond if you want, but I wont be responding to you any further. I dont agree with harassment, but I also have no intention to stick around and financially support a game that would ban someone, not over actions, but over something they said off site that led people to perceive their intentions, when the same actions wouldnt lead to a ban for someone else.

Fair enough.

This community doesn't need people sinking into the negative extremes and paranoia that they would get banned for playing a game or voicing their opinions. I want to look out for those who may be triggered by all this and even by all the rationalization made. Cannot side with them even though I remember the days I was also a dumb 12-18-year-old. It is just not funny anymore when others are hurt in the process. If you cannot understand the banning and why they went out of bounds, I am sorry. You deserve better than that.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=16#155 Author: Typhlosion Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 3:43 PM [quote=2699138] As someone who was a part of this server, for a little bit, I can say that there are some people in there - or that ever were in there - that I never want to interact with again. There are some people that I believe deserve the ban they got, and deserve to stay banned. I am not going to mince words about that. The thing is, though; not everybody who was banned did anything to deserve it - other than venting out frustrations that they never actually did anything about. This supposed planned attack on the economy was not even committed by someone in that server - and it was not committed in cahoots with anyone else in this server. As far as I am aware, and actually saw, it was one single person. One person who, again, is not even in the server in question. But you do not see any evidence of either - you just see things that people said out of frustration in a server they believed was private. The people I am advocating for are the ones who got banned - without a dm, without ever getting a pm warning. Why? Because they never did anything wrong before - and all they did wrong now was being in the wrong place at the wrong time, supposedly. I dont want to give any names - but there are three people in specific that I would stake my life for. Three people that are kinder than you can imagine, and that legitimately loved this game. Why are they gone, now? Because they vented? They did not do anything. I know they did not do anything. Edited because I am on mobile, and apparently quotation marks do not count as something that shows up, either. Go figure.

I definitely agree no one should get banned without warning. While I agree with the ban, I also believe it's completely possible a couple people got banned who didn't do anything. Those are the only people who should be allowed to talk about getting their accounts unbanned with Krin and Fai, assuming there isn't any proof of those specific people doing anything. Because yes, selling pets for cheap and doing give aways, or even 'gentle' venting is alone not an issue-the actual harassing and threatening of people was the problem.

The direct quote is, "I live with someone with actual doxing and swatting experience as both victim and culprit :) Take that as you will."

It's not just a matter of living with someone who has experienced a situation, they are indicating that this person has actively caused harm to others and has knowledge of how to do so. Furthermore, the statement is left open-ended with the phrase "take that as you will." If there was no intention of making a veiled threat, why mention that the person in question has been the perpetrator of swatting and doxxing others?

who experienced it as both a victim AND culprit. This was also said what looks to be directly after private information about Krin was shared that I assume could be used to doxx him. You can see how that can be interpreted, right?