Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=18#174 Author: Rapidbrush Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 4:41 PM [quote=2699171] Can you point out where Fox is saying it is a crime and not insinuating to something more sinister? Also, if they wanted to reach out to anyone, wouldn't it make sense to reach out to the person whose info is being shared and not put it in a discord where people are actively hating on said person? I dont have the full context for any of these screenshots which is why I am asking for a bit more info in terms of the conversation as a whole. --edit-- I also want to make it very clear that I'm not looking at this from the price of pets perspective. What is concerning to me is the talk of doxxing and private info sharing

Yeah, to me the idea that Fox was saying it was a crime is flimsy.

If you want to say something is a crime, do so. Don't make thinly veiled insinuations, especially as 'take it as you will' is often used to mean 'yeah, this is something that could be done/true, but I don't want to actually admit it, because that would be bad' (at least that is how I often see it used)

It is very easy to say 'hey, doxxing and swatting is a crime, maybe we shouldn't be talking about things like that'.

Even 'I live with someone who has both been a victim and culprit, and it is 100% illegal'.

If Fox hadn't included the 'and as a culprit' then I would have been inclined to believe it was more 'hey, maybe we shouldn't be discussing this'. But adding that implies that their partner knows how to do it and is willing to do so.

So I've been sort of reading these threads through the day, absorbing them, thinking and honestly...

There was a lot of dark things going on under the surface. Bad mouthing other players. Harassing or encouraging others to go ahead and harass. I admittedly fell into that mindset for awhile. Until I woke up one day and decided I didn't like who I was becoming. That no good came from this sort of behavior. And I quietly left the original Discord server where these things were occurring with increasing regularity and severity.

There was a kerfluffle, warnings were sent out. I saw them, I was in the thread sent out to multiple people back then. I was also warned and rightly so as my behavior back then was uncalled for. A couple of people were banned, and rightly so. It was a chance for /all/ of us involved in that, however in deep or peripherally, to do some navel gazing.

So, I paused and reflected on my behavior, realized I didn't like it, it felt bad, and have flown straight since. Others, sadly, decided doubling down was a better idea.

This entire narrative of "We did no wrong, the server was private" is disingenuous. Y'all know that what you were doing wasn't staying *in* the server. I might agree, however distasteful I find it, if all anyone was doing was venting and nothing else. But people were either engaging in harassment or encouraging other people to. In doxxing. In joking about swatting. In deliberately trying to crash the market to harm the game and get back at Krin. Ruining it for anyone else, just because you were mad at the site admin for whatever reason. You weren't doing it for any good reason. Don't try to pull that card. We can all see the discussions going on and the intent was clear.

And those who were "venting" saw it happening and said nothing, did nothing. Complicity is just as bad as far as I'm concerned.

Even if these posts have been taken out of context, that still is a lot of things they said that I cannot justify. Swatting and doxxing is a very hurtful and very real thing, so even if it was a joke (and the way its phrased, at least to me, is not very joke-ish) it was a joke in very, very bad taste. I've seen things happen like this in another one of my games, and in the end the entire game was shut down without any warning or explanation to the player base. All I'm hoping is that this incident doesn't destroy Sylestia entirely.

I didn't intend to make any other comments about this topic aside from my first post, but I'm concerned about the current conversation that seems to be circulating the thread.

Doxxing
I'm sorry, but if you read the comment (Paraphrased: "I live with someone who has both been the culprit and victim of doxxing... Take that as you will") and you don't understand that it's a threat, you need to take a step back and reevaluate before you try to defend the comment. It very clearly means "I'm close with an individual who has significant knowledge of how to doxx people." Seeing it used in this context, it's an obvious remark that if they chose to, they could have people doxxed. Simple as that. I encourage everyone to seriously think about the things they are reading and apply a realistic judgment to it.

Invasion of privacy
Please feel free to have any opinion on this specific topic, but it's crucial to understand the entire situation. It has been said a million times on this thread already, but some people don't seem to grasp it. Concerned parties reached out to Krin and provided the screenshots. It's a very serious issue when people are making comments with bad intentions. Can you seriously blame the site's owner for wanting to protect the website, his entire business? It's not stalking when a website's administrator is contacted and implored to investigate.

"Joking"
I'm an individual who is able to understand the tone and intention behind online posts. I do not claim to have a full understanding of the Discord chats from the screenshots, but I will say this... The "joking" about ruining Sylestia's economy was discussed with unhappy humour, but some of it was genuine. It wasn't mere venting. There was a seriousness in the messages. As I previously stated, I won't claim that I'm some super intelligent person who understands every online message. Miscommunication is commonplace online for the reason that you cannot fully understand people's intentions and tones when they're chatting online. However, I'm not the only person who can clearly sense the serious tone behind the jokes. People often use humour regardless of their true intentions, because it's what humans do. You are completely free to use your own intuition to understand the screenshots, but think for a moment... If they were really harmless jokes said during rants, would the situation have escalated this much?

-

Thank you for reading. Everyone on Sylestia is entitled to their opinions. Don't take this message like I'm trying to force my opinions on you. I wanted to share my perspective to people who are lurking in the forums and trying to understand the situation. If my words helped bring any clarity, I'm glad for it.

Sylestia is a beautiful community, and despite the recent events, I'm hopeful that we'll all be able to resume the peaceful, relaxing space that this website has always provided many players, myself included.

I've been on haitus for 4 years and i returned basically at the beginning of 'week' of love so I completely missed all of this.

That being said what is wrong with some of you that you seem to completely ignore that these are not private conversations? Once someone comes forward they are no longer private.

They were in a "closed" discord server, yes. but members of that discord server that were horrified by the potential attempted murder threats (the swatting and doxxing) came forward and said "Yo! krin! We have a much bigger problem here!"

The threats of "crashing" the economy and the harassment, while still important because of the malicious intent, are like pennies to that. People have died because of swatting. You could use someone's address and mail them nasty stuff, kill them with anthrax or any number of dangerous chemicals. This is no joke.



Aside from that. while this is a (i would hope) beloved site. This is a business. and krin has a right to refuse service as per his right as a business owner. If I owned a business I'd certainly tell someone to get the flipping flip out of my store if they came in with this sort of behavior. and I'd ban their friends too so they couldn't send their minions to spew harassment and scare off customers.


Even if you don't read the TOS there's always rules on harassment and bullying. So don't claim ignorance as a way to get out of it.



Instead y'all are focusing on "privacy" and "oh woes. Now we have lost a chunk of pixels....". If it becomes that big a deal then they'll figure something out. Maybe there'll be a special event later focusing on the suddenly rare themeds.



But in the meantime, maybe y'all should analyze what you seem to be finding important. cause it ain't looking pretty from that side.

On my part. I'm glad that everyone that was focused on is safe and not. y'anno. Dead from 20+ swat guns pointed at them. How horrifying.



(If this is a bit much, I'm sorry but i'm kinda disgusted that people keep going "but muh prifcy wah!" Throughout the whole thread. )

I think it is kinda silly to think that a handful of players being banned will have some kind of huge effect on the economy, even with how massive their hoard was. I welcome any info on how one believes this would have an impact on the economy since I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to such things. I am aware it takes their gold/diamonds out of the picture but....I mean all of us are able to buy diamonds and earn gold on the site and that isn't just from pet sales.

I am in agreeance with many on the forum who are pointing out that people are arguing about them being banned over what they want to sell their pets for and it has been stated over and over that that is not what got them banned. It was more specifically the harassment and threats to players and admins. To which I think bans are justified.

Pertaining to the discord server. It sounds like it was far from private with groups of players being invited into it to the point where they were inviting players they 'thought' wanted to rant in there. <seems that wasn't the case for them all>

Lastly, I would like to say that I can understand people wanting to vent about things to others. I do this often with my mother-in-law as I always feel she understands my frustrations. However, the venting here is just beyond my moral scope. Calling it 'venting' just doesn't seem appropriate. Joking? Even less so. People shouldn't joke about harming, harassing or even plotting to do harm to a game that over 3k people enjoy. I am just glad that not everyone in that server decided to just sit back and do nothing. I wonder if they could have spoken up, but I am sure that would have put them under the scope of their harassment which is why they likely did what they felt they could.

Hang in there Krin, Fai and all the artists who make Sylestia what it is. I support your buiz!

I understand the worry about losing access to old themes but to me it just seems kinda... wrong.
While yes, these players are no longer able to access the pets, many still did spend countless hours getting these themed and special pets. Some even paid actual money for them. To just set those up for others to use for breeding/buy seems wrong. It's similar to the many, many old players who no longer play and have tons of old and rare themes - setting their pets up for others to use wouldn't be the solution. It feels a bit like swooping in to profit off of another's work.

I feel like instead hosting a special even to bring back old themed would be better, and not in a "weel of themed" kind of way. Maybe every fest a couple of species could have an older theme reintroduced. This way it's possible for others to collect the theme that is rare to access while still allowing the players to keep what they earned.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=20#198 Author: Oiseau Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 7:40 PM I understand the worry about losing access to old themes but to me it just seems kinda... wrong. While yes, these players are no longer able to access the pets, many still did spend countless hours getting these themed and special pets. Some even paid actual money for them. To just set those up for others to use for breeding/buy seems wrong. It's similar to the many, many old players who no longer play and have tons of old and rare themes - setting their pets up for others to use wouldn't be the solution. It feels a bit like swooping in to profit off of another's work. I feel like instead hosting a special even to bring back old themed would be better, and not in a "weel of themed" kind of way. Maybe every fest a couple of species could have an older theme reintroduced. This way it's possible for others to collect the theme that is rare to access while still allowing the players to keep what they earned.

Honestly this is what I was thinking.

Yeah, it is sad that those pets are now out of the economy, but there are not only bigger issues, but other ways that new pets of those themes can be introduced should Krin wish it.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=20#198 Author: Oiseau Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 7:40 PM I understand the worry about losing access to old themes but to me it just seems kinda... wrong. While yes, these players are no longer able to access the pets, many still did spend countless hours getting these themed and special pets. Some even paid actual money for them. To just set those up for others to use for breeding/buy seems wrong. It's similar to the many, many old players who no longer play and have tons of old and rare themes - setting their pets up for others to use wouldn't be the solution. It feels a bit like swooping in to profit off of another's work. I feel like instead hosting a special even to bring back old themed would be better, and not in a "weel of themed" kind of way. Maybe every fest a couple of species could have an older theme reintroduced. This way it's possible for others to collect the theme that is rare to access while still allowing the players to keep what they earned.

I think this is a great idea. Maybe post it in the suggestions forum?