Krin and Fae are the most interactive administrators for any website that I have ever seen. They bend over backwards to try and improve this site and appease us. The Vulnyx design must've taken hours of their time, on top of running the site and doing what they normally do.

I think it's selfish of some people to be complaining and angry about the new artwork. It's like getting a present for Christmas you didn't particularly like and throwing a tantrum. They worked their butts off on this new artwork. The least you could do, if you didn't like it, is say nothing at all. For someone to spend hours of their time trying to make us happy and have all you complainers out there is just beyond rude. We're spoiled by the time and effort they put in to helping us and need to stop taking it for granted.

Could the transition have been smoother? Maybe. But what good would it have done? If we didn't like something, they weren't going to go back and change it 50 times until everybody liked it. Showing previews would've only caused unnessicary delay in the actual release.

In my opinion, the new design is a million times better than I could've imagined and I now love a pet I previously would've never liked. Other people hate it. That's life. You can't please everybody. But Krin and Fae try hard to do that, and I think we all need to be respectful of that effort.

When I battle, mine retains the old look. Personally, I'm done with that. I like the new design but... I dish like the original better in regards to the sleek, dangerous cat feel. Now it's more of.. Cute kitty to cuddle with. Not dangerous thing that likes to rip faces off.

Edit: however. The new artwork is very detailed, very professional. The old design has minimal detail in comparison.

There are pros and con's to the new design. Overall, good job designers!

As I said before, I like the new design a lot and am very excited to see the rest of designs. I've seen people disappointed for one reason or another, and I've seen people take issue with each other over it.

Personally, I see no problem with saying you don't like it. As long as you're polite, same goes for saying that you like it. We can all be mature about this, and I don't think there's any need to for scolding here even if they aren't.

I kind of have no idea how running a site would work either, so I have no input on the whole "more interaction and feedback/don't have to change it all" thing. But I am completely okay with this being a surprise. Guess I'm not everyone. Oh well.

Yay for sylestia though, first pet site in a while I really enjoyed.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=14913&page=23#221 Author: Roe Time Posted: 6/19/2014 at 9:54 PM Krin and Fae are the most interactive administrators for any website that I have ever seen. They bend over backwards to try and improve this site and appease us. The Vulnyx design must've taken hours of their time, on top of running the site and doing what they normally do. I think it's selfish of some people to be complaining and angry about the new artwork. It's like getting a present for Christmas you didn't particularly like and throwing a tantrum. They worked their butts off on this new artwork. The least you could do, if you didn't like it, is say nothing at all. For someone to spend hours of their time trying to make us happy and have all you complainers out there is just beyond rude. We're spoiled by the time and effort they put in to helping us and need to stop taking it for granted. Could the transition have been smoother? Maybe. But what good would it have done? If we didn't like something, they weren't going to go back and change it 50 times until everybody liked it. Showing previews would've only caused unnessicary delay in the actual release. In my opinion, the new design is a million times better than I could've imagined and I now love a pet I previously would've never liked. Other people hate it. That's life. You can't please everybody. But Krin and Fae try hard to do that, and I think we all need to be respectful of that effort.

Roe.. do keep in mind that much as Sylestia is a game.. for Krin and Fai it is also *a business*. I think it is somewhat of a bad idea for a potential customer to tell other potential customers they shouldn't express their dis-satisfaction with something. If that becomes a habit amongst people, they simply go elsewhere once they reach a certain level of unhappiness, instead of helping the admin to understand what is and isn't working well on the site. You can never please everybody.. but if you please nobody, your site isn't going to do very well!

I am very much against people telling others they should just keep quiet if they don't like something on a site. Constructive criticism helps sites improve in many ways!

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=14913&page=22#217 Author: Selestial Time Posted: 6/19/2014 at 9:13 PM Just maybe something to think about for people who wanted to keep a couple prize pets in the original art form, instead of the new ones. I understand it would be entirely impossible to keep both new and old versions up to date, but what if there was an option similar to how neopets handled the art switching over? Users had a choice, with certain species, to keep their pets the way they were, the 'un-converted' pets. So my suggestion would be to make a diamond shop item that, when the new versions of the starters come out, would allow the person to choose to 'freeze' one of their pets. For example: Zalesi was my first 6vis Zolnixi. I am a little worried, as much as I adore the new Vulnyx design, that Zalesi will require a second make-over when Nixis are redone. So, if this was made possible, the diamond shop items, if I used it on her, would freeze her as she is, rather than transferring her over to the new design. And these items would only work for a limited amount of time, so after, say, a week with the new design, they would be unavailable and no other pets would be able to be frozen. It would mean people who couldn't bear to see their hard work gone to waste could freeze one or two of their pets the way they want them, the site would gain a little bit of income, and you and Krin wouldn't need to worry about updating the old designs with new genes/mutations. These 'frozen' pets would still be fully functional, but breeding them would still produce a baby with the new design.

Can I just add, as someone who's very active on Neopets, PLEASE don't do this. Unconverted (as they're called there, in case some users aren't on there as well) pets have done NOTHING but complicate the website. The amount of stealing that goes on with them, the scams, the illegal selling of pets, etc. It's a nightmare on there, and I really don't think it's a good idea to do it here. For one thing, if you decided to change them down the line, it would make it nearly impossible. The Neopets Team was surprised by how popular UC pets are and didn't see the problems they could cause, but now they're at a point where there's no turning back. The repercussions would be significantly worse if they converted them all now then if they had in the beginning.

So, PLEASE, I BEG OF YOU, don't do this! I can understand people wanting to hang on to memories, but it gets so messy. The details on it would be so confusing in the end and they would become overwhelmingly sought after.

EDIT: Oh! I also want to add that, one thing I love about Sylestia, is that any pet you dream of you can get someday. You can breed until you get THE perfect pet of your wildest dreams. Ask many users on Neopets and they'll complain that one of the worst things is that those who don't have unconverteds have a pretty slim chance of ever owning one. There are only so many, and trading Neopets (selling pets isn't allowed there) is a difficult thing and few things that can be created there are valuable enough to trade for an unconverted pet. People complain all the time about how difficult it is to get these pets and the same thing would inevitably happen here.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=14913&page=23#224 Author: Zelly Time Posted: 6/19/2014 at 10:32 PM [quote=245552] Roe.. do keep in mind that much as Sylestia is a game.. for Krin and Fai it is also *a business*. I think it is somewhat of a bad idea for a potential customer to tell other potential customers they shouldn't express their dis-satisfaction with something. If that becomes a habit amongst people, they simply go elsewhere once they reach a certain level of unhappiness, instead of helping the admin to understand what is and isn't working well on the site. You can never please everybody.. but if you please nobody, your site isn't going to do very well! I am very much against people telling others they should just keep quiet if they don't like something on a site. Constructive criticism helps sites improve in many ways!

Maybe she put it a bit harshly, but I think she still has a point. Everyone who put these pets together worked their buns off doing it, and we do need to remember to appreciate that fact. This website also DOES have the most responsive admins I've ever known on a site, we need to appreciate that. The fact that they have replied to posts on this board is amazing to me, I'm just so not used to it. But people offering constructive criticism is one thing. Complaining about how much you dislike it and how badly you want it to go back to how it was is another.

It's human nature to dislike change. It's human nature cling to things we like for fear we'll lose them. Some of this see this new artwork and are like "OHDEARGOD MY MEMORIES ARE DESTROYED!" others are like "THAT'S THE MOST AMAZING THING I'VE EVER SEEN!" A lot of times people get sort of clingy to their side. Perhaps it's because the people who want the old thing back hope complaining will help, perhaps the new people are afraid the new thing they love will suddenly be taken away (sort of how my cats react whenever they get new toys). So when people express opinions in this sort of situation they can be very passionate about it. I've learned this over my years on the internet.

In the end, no matter what way they chose to go about releasing the new pets there would be people who would be upset. If we got a preview and major changes were made to the pet we saw in the preview, people would complain. If there weren't enough changes, people would complain. If we could keep some of the old pets as is, people would complain. ANY WAY THEY DID IT there would be people who would be elated, and there would be people who would feel like their life is over, if only for a moment. They chose the option that would make it easier for the site because it made the most sense. No matter what people would be upset, this was the best way to do it technically. When all options will upset and delight people, you have to go with the one that has added benefits, like making it easiest to program, as Fai said.

I completely understand your concerns about this. I know the mess UCs have made of Neopets, but I think that's partially due to the fact that selling pets is against the rules there. That and the staff is rather irresponsible, in my opinion, in the way they handle things - one of the reasons why I more or less quit the site. Then, it was just an option to change your pet, while on here if it was a diamond shop item people would have to love that pet enough to spend their real money on it. I think that alone, for a lot of pets, means they will never be leaving the account of the person who changed them. And there's always the option of locking them to the account of the person who chose to froze them, as well, sort of like how starter pets are locked to the account of the user. That would make sure there were never any of the issues with the frozen pets on here that there are with the UCs.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=14913&page=23#227 Author: Selestial Time Posted: 6/19/2014 at 11:53 PM I completely understand your concerns about this. I know the mess UCs have made of Neopets, but I think that's partially due to the fact that selling pets is against the rules there. That and the staff is rather irresponsible, in my opinion, in the way they handle things - one of the reasons why I more or less quit the site. Then, it was just an option to change your pet, while on here if it was a diamond shop item people would have to love that pet enough to spend their real money on it. I think that alone, for a lot of pets, means they will never be leaving the account of the person who changed them. And there's always the option of locking them to the account of the person who chose to froze them, as well, sort of like how starter pets are locked to the account of the user. That would make sure there were never any of the issues with the frozen pets on here that there are with the UCs.

Selling pets isn't, but trading is. And I believe that's similar enough for my comparison. Stealing pets is still against the rules here, and there's no end to how people will behave online. Even if no pets are stolen, there are still the issues with user complains. Even if they are locked to accounts, people would be upset that they can't get one no matter what then. People would be begging for the option to sell or trade them, they would want to be able to make their own, they'd want to have new genes and mutations made for them, etc. It would get to the point where you think "Where will the compromises end?"

It also provides an extra technical burden for the site to have to set those pets apart and code them differently. It also brings up all sorts of technical questions. If they are bred, how would the traits work, for instance? Can they be bred with only old styled pets? If they're bred with newer pets how would traits line up once more are released? Will it be possible to revert new pets to those styles? How much would an item that would change their art cost? Would it only be sold for diamonds? Would it be tradeable? There are so many questions that I just don't think it's worth it.

While I do think it would be nice to have a bit more of a heads up so people could screenshot their favorite pets as is, I don't think leaving some pets the same would help in the end. It would solve some problems, but then create other ones. In the end it's not worth it.

Yes, newer users are likely bound to be upset because there's no way for them to get a locked pet, but I suppose I don't see the problem with that. Once again, for something like that, even if the pets weren't locked to accounts I can't see many users being wiling to part with something so dear to them they were willing to spend real money on to keep it the way it was. One of the things I like about this site, though, is that it doesn't seem to have the mindset that everyone should be able to have everything - like the Wheel Pets. They're highly exclusive, since there are so few, and sure, you can get offspring, but that's not nearly the same. Unless someone is either extremely lucky or is willing to spend a good chunk of real money, they're probably not going to be able to get a tagged Wheel pet. That hasn't created any enormous problems for the site. I see the frozen pets as being meant for the people willing to spend the money to keep them that old way because they are that dear to the user, not as something shiny to entice the entire userbase with, so there would be no basis for people who might want new genes/muts for the older versions to base their arguments off.

As for technical problems with coding, I won't pretend to know anything about how that works. If it's impossible/too difficult, then it is, and I won't say anything more, especially knowing how busy the mods are already. Breeding, however, I don't see how there would be any issues, not with the way trait dominance lines up. The frozen pet, if bred with a pet with newer genes, would have the older traits carried/visible over the less dominant newer traits. The only time I can see this being an issue would be if old traits were retired - which I believe Krin once said would not be happening - or with traits being moved around, such as with the Flame Runes/Lynx issue. The other questions you posed would be up to Krin and Fair, in the end, but I don't see why they're so hard to answer.

I don't know. In the end it's up to Krin and Fair, of course, and for all I know this is something they would never do just on principle. It was just something I thought I would at least put out there to be considered, since it seemed to me it would put a lot of people more at ease about the future re-designs. I certainly never was intending to start a debate.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=14913&page=23#229 Author: Selestial Time Posted: 6/20/2014 at 12:19 AM Yes, newer users are likely bound to be upset because there's no way for them to get a locked pet, but I suppose I don't see the problem with that. Once again, for something like that, even if the pets weren't locked to accounts I can't see many users being wiling to part with something so dear to them they were willing to spend real money on to keep it the way it was. One of the things I like about this site, though, is that it doesn't seem to have the mindset that everyone should be able to have everything - like the Wheel Pets. They're highly exclusive, since there are so few, and sure, you can get offspring, but that's not nearly the same. Unless someone is either extremely lucky or is willing to spend a good chunk of real money, they're probably not going to be able to get a tagged Wheel pet. That hasn't created any enormous problems for the site. I see the frozen pets as being meant for the people willing to spend the money to keep them that old way because they are that dear to the user, not as something shiny to entice the entire userbase with, so there would be no basis for people who might want new genes/muts for the older versions to base their arguments off. As for technical problems with coding, I won't pretend to know anything about how that works. If it's impossible/too difficult, then it is, and I won't say anything more, especially knowing how busy the mods are already. Breeding, however, I don't see how there would be any issues, not with the way trait dominance lines up. The frozen pet, if bred with a pet with newer genes, would have the older traits carried/visible over the less dominant newer traits. The only time I can see this being an issue would be if old traits were retired - which I believe Krin once said would not be happening - or with traits being moved around, such as with the Flame Runes/Lynx issue. The other questions you posed would be up to Krin and Fair, in the end, but I don't see why they're so hard to answer. I don't know. In the end it's up to Krin and Fair, of course, and for all I know this is something they would never do just on principle. It was just something I thought I would at least put out there to be considered, since it seemed to me it would put a lot of people more at ease about the future re-designs. I certainly never was intending to start a debate.

First off, I'm sorry if I upset you by arguing or anything. It's hard to tell how people are feeling from just their posts :p And if you're worried I'm upset, I consider debates to be a good thing, which is why I added my opinion on the matter in. I thought I had some valid points, which you acknowledged, and thought they should be brought up. I also thought your point was well put, which is why I replied. I didn't want the post to seem one-sided. I know it's not up to us in the end, and this discussion will likely have no effect on whatever they decide to do, but I think debating can be a good way to exercise your mind and find out what you really want. If anything I post sounds rude, please know it wasn't meant to be at all. I just think it's good for people with differing opinions to make their own points, listen to the other person's points, and retort and so on.

But to reply to what you were saying... I don't think getting a wheel pet and getting an UC are the same principle, however. For one, all users have the potential to get one. It has nothing to do with how rich you are, how long you've been along, etc. It has to do with luck. There's also always the possibility to save up enough gold to potentially buy one off of someone. Even if they want diamonds, you can buy them with that gold. It'd take a lot of work, sure, but it's still possible. But if we have frozen pets like you said that wouldn't be the same as a wheel pet. You wouldn't be able to save up for them like that. And even if they aren't used to entice new users, new users WILL see them at some point. And whether they like them or not, the fact that they're rare alone will cause some users to want them and to complain. Also take into consideration users who took a hiatus from the site, only to come back and see their pets changed, not seeing any way to change them back when other people had that option. And my point with the questions was that a lot of them would come up that wouldn't if things were left neatly how they are. Frankly, I'm guessing keeping old designs was considered when the new pets were released, but decided against for whatever reason.

Anyway, I've gotta get to bed. I've stayed up way later than I had planned considering I didn't sleep well last night :p

P.S. I hope we didn't bore other people to death with all of this, lol, since it was just us two (for this part, at least, someone may add something after I go to bed). But lots of chunks of text being posted here that other people may want to catch up with, but that a lot of them I'm guessing won't have a huge opinion on.