Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=10193&page=2#20 Author: Kurama Time Posted: 1/11/2014 at 7:08 PM I think raising the prices of pets is a good idea, but I'm not so sure it's a very good thing for some of the items. Anyway, I'm all for helping raise the price of pets, I was thinking that a good way to raise the prices of some is to use mutators on captured pets with no traits, and to use dyes on ones with less desirable colours, and to prevent new ones coming into the market as much as we can. (That'd raise the price of dyes and philters which contradicts what I said, but you can always get more via the scale shop, and if in the future we can sell our sylesties for scales, then it'd even out in the end)

I believe wholeheartedly in the safehoarding and wise using of dyes and mutators. FD

The fact is, breeders WILL NOT stop their mass breeding lol, whether people like their colors or not. Doesn't mean that we should use resources to make the stragglers that are around any better. (Which is what some SOS threads are doing, taking dyes and whatever to make wanted pets all pretty, AND YET BREEDING THEM again to make them "more valuable" but that's no more different than what I underlined above)

I like dyes and philters and mutators the way they are. They're constantly changing in the broker prices, which is healthy. Move down when there's an event that gives many, move up when their demand moves up. (Also, I can't nurture 1000 pets easily...the scale system was never good for me. xD)

What I assume SOSers are doing are buying out the supply of undesirables, and with them, make desirables AND limit their availability at the same time. I'm curious what happens later.
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Like Roguew said (and I agree), it's a capitalist move of sorts to "buy out the market so they can raise the price", and that's that.
I think it's REALLY HILARIOUS because it shows they rely on a market to make their gold, and I also agree that it takes away from "items [that] would really help new players if they were cheap".
tl;dr I think people who try to control the economy are indirectly attacking resources that would really help new players.

I guess what you say is true, I didn't really think of it like that.

It's cool. xD

I mean, I used to think of there being a market for lvl60 pets, for example.
But when you think about it, all you can do is go out into an area with some traps and catch some of your own. (and level em on your own)

One person can easily expand an unwanted market by catching things and assuming they're sellable. Doesn't mean that every wild thing you see in the wild ever deserves a mutator and a dye. c:

I bet there is a market for Flutes... *throws trap at Flute* XD

But in all seriousness, the SOS thing worries me a lil too because I see people breeding pets just to sell to the ppl buying them. But I just stand over here away from them and continue to mass breed :P I used to see releasing them as a bad thing but I seriously now believe that the release system is actually a very important aspect of the game and not such a negative thing. I think most ppl try to give pets away for free because they feel bad for releasing and if they all thought about it as a much more positive thing, it would help the economy greatly.

I tend to get a lil jealous when new players have 5-6 trait pets because I had to work really hard to breed 5-6 trait pets and no one gave em to me. It took me months of hard work to build up what I have. I can trace my first 6 vis nixi all the way back to the very first pet I ever captured as well as the very first one I ever bought (who was a 1 vis and I remember feeling so special because I could afford her) But it is what it is so now I shall simply wrap myself in my lil bubble and breed and release what I want and sell what will sell for the prices I deem suitable and not concern myself with the rest of the world but also not add to the problem like I know I have in the past.

Except for Flute. I shall capture her and mutate her and stick her on the auction block for millions and millions... and millions! :D

I'm not really sure how I feel about this. I've been worried though that generosity is being discouraged. Particularly when there's many ways to make gold on Sylestia.

hmm.... i see where you are coming from flute, and i understand what you are saying, however as the starter of Operation: Ny'Vene [SOS] i don't completely agree with you. are you saying that we should just leave all the unwanted pets to just float around the system? overbreeding is a problem but it would do vary little if we simply stopped breeding. there are just too many pets in the system at this point in time. i'd like to know what you would do. how would you fix this problem?

i don't really see how helping the pet market would effect the item market. could someone help me out?

i agree completely what you guys are saying, mass breeding is a real problem however i do believe that Krinadon and Faiona have a simple solution to that, they are going to limit the hatchery, if people don't have the room then they cant breed so many pets ^.^

however i don't necessarily agree that stat breeding is bad, i just think its a different part of the market. there are people who go looking for pretty pets and there are people who go looking for pets with strong stats. i do believe that stat breeders need to learn how to release pets just like people who are breeding "pretty" pets

what i think might help the breeding situation would be if we had to pay for each breeding. not too much but a couple K. its a proven fact that when you have to pay for something yourself you are more careful with it. i think it wouldn't effect the older players so much because they have the money to spare, but the younger people.... it might help them conciser "do i really want a pet from this pair?" also it might help the economy. people don't like to sell pets for less then they payed for them.

EDIT: i would like to say that your right Savynn there are many ways to make money on this site but where would we be without stores? people in real life who make money off selling things?

oof gotta break down your reply xD (topics you addressed in your post are bolded in mine, gonna try to keep it simple)

1. I like "unwanted pets floating around the system" a little more than breeders intentionally handling the market for their own profit. xD It's a bit selfish. (Calls for an economy, which breeders think is apparently well needed, but selfish)

2. The items (not so much an "item market", to which I say is doing fine) were just discussed as using them on pets to make them more desirable. (ie you redyeing ny'vene along your SOS project)
I thought Kurama was saying to use those items to make all "unwanted pets" more desirable. Which is kind of a waste of allocated resources if not used wisely.

3. I still think the limit for hatcheries should be 5 pages. xD Personally, anyways. I'm all for it, but...5 pages is a nice starting number imo. If not 3 and the 2 additional pages are cheap.

4. Where did stat breeding come from?
I think the people I know who do stat breeding (as compared to pretty breeding, or either or) are much more mature in handling their breeding than others are. But...where did we start talking about that?? o:

5. I think "paying for each breeding" is already implemented: in the prices we pay towards other people. People who control their breedings by making multi-trait rare pets high (lemme cite Black for having 40k+ female AS things for breeding, and yes, that's high) control this situation. Who buys into it are the ones who take the risk (as addressed by you saying "when you have to pay...you are more careful").
I think this isn't fair to see this in older players vs younger players. It's like the 1% exacting a tax on the 99% of consumers. o,o A tax the 1% isn't that bad off to pay, but forces the 99% to conform to the 1%. It's like saying the 1% knows what's right for the economy, just by impressing their thoughts to do so.

Just tell people who "stud" their pets to raise their prices. Isn't that what we're already doing if we wanna outsource? "Do I really want to breed with this stud?" So don't press this on younger players. Press this on studders and other people who make use of the "Breeding Fee". (And Black is a good example of that running start. Eimell as well, who I remember was very careful on her pricing of Kelpari breeding way back when they were new.)

6. Real Life =/= Game
If you rely on selling pets to make enough gold to feed your pets, you're doing something wrong...
I assume that viewpoint comes from other games, which start off as "pay big bucks now to make offspring that can sell for ingame currency". In this game, if you choose to take that route, you're only limited to your offspring.
I guess what I'm trying to say is...in a game, there's more to it than being a store.
Players that play the game by doing missions, fighting monsters, selling EQUIPMENT seem to be more well off than breeders who complain about the decreasing prices of their pets and RELYING on other people to buy their offspring, and also COMPLAINING that other players hurdle complaints of high prices at them, trying to reach compromises of all sorts.

tl;dr for 6 is stop relying being a store. It's exactly the point Savynn is trying to make: she isn't dismissing the fact we have an economy. She's saying that people who rely on breeding to get through the game are the ones having real issue with this "economy problem" when they could be doing what other players are doing and earning gold that way.

A lot of good points have been brought up here, and I'm torn between wondering if this would have happened regardless and sincerely hoping it wasn't me personally that started this uproar about the economy with my article for the November newspaper. ^^' I think there are a fair amount of misconceptions about why some people are concerned about the pet economy. I am, obviously, since I wrote the article about the concerning drop in the prices of fables, to the points where they're only a little more expensive if not the same as regular pets, but I'm not concerned because I'm a breeder not making enough gold because of the dropping prices. I breed my Nephinis in mass, every time my females come off recovery, and I sell the hatchlings that don't fit the number of traits/visibles that I'm currently at in my journey towards a 6vis. However, I rarely make any gold and more often than not end up releasing those Nephinis. My prices are high, I admit, since I price at 40k per vis and 20k per carry, so I don't really expect to make a lot. All my gold comes from fighting and missions and that type of stuff.

I fully understand that some breeders are likely more concerned because they're losing money with the dropping prices, but as I talked about in the article, my concern and the concern of many others has nothing to do with the income. It has to do with being saddened by the drop in prices because there was a time when those pets were prized, when they were something to work towards. And if you don't have a goal on a pet site, what's the point of playing? When I joined I wanted nothing more than a Ny'Vene, and I worked my tookus off to get enough gold to buy mt first couple. If I hadn't had that goal, and then more goals after (Getting my 6vis Nixi, capturing a Nephini, and currently, working towards my 6vis Nephini) I probably wouldn't have become such an active member as I am. I know many people who want to those the fables become prized pets again. And honestly, I know I spend far more gold purchasing Nephs than I do anything else, and that's only because I buy the ones that are put up for sale for less than 10k.

^.^ you brought up some good points

1. ??? i think i get what you are saying however your wording was a little.... weird? however i've got to say that not all of us are doing this for our own profit. read point 6 for more infro.

2. ohh ok i understand what you are talking about, however i just want to say isn't that the point of them? to make undesirable pets more desirable? if not i'm a little lost, then i don't see how making a Ny'Vene nicer looking would be any different then making a Nixi nicer looking or a puffadore. what i feel you are saying is that dyes should be for privet use only and not to help with thing such as what Operation: Ny'Vene [SOS] is doing. i don't see how it should effect the item market if what we are doing is no different then what people have done sense the beginning of the site.

3. hmm... 5 pages? thats more then i myself have ever used ^.^ i'd say we should keep it like the stables. start with one or two pages then the next ones progressively more expansive,

4. sorry i thought you were talking about stat breeding when you were taking about buying level 60 pets ^.^;

5. the way you say it makes it sound horrible Dx lol what i meant to say is personal breeding between two pets one owns should have a cost. older players vs younger players wasn't what i was talking about but newer players have a tendency to breed without thinking, they have a male and female pet of the same species and they are excited. i'm saying that it will effect the more experienced breeders less. the people who have the nicer pets and know how to put them together.

players don't want to pay for studs, they want their own so they don't have to pay. so players [especially younger players] will breed together the pets they have whether they look good together or not. so
maybe putting a price one personally bred pets will make it easier for people to breed their pets with outside studs, for better colors/genes.

just so you know i have nothing against newbees! these are just observations i've made and things i use to do myself.

6. i agree, being a "store" on this site is usless. i agree there are other ways to make money and i also agree that because of these reasons people have no right to complain they don't have any money, however i will say that the pet economy is and will effect everyone weather they are a "store" player or just a regular "mission carrier" player, i feel you are saying that people who are "store" players are the only ones being effected, but they are not.

i myself rarely do anything unless i have a goal in mind, a reason to so it. let me ask you, what is the goal of raising money on this site if not to buy good pets? yeah there are items but there are people [like my sister] who don't care so much for items. if this sites "rarest" pets are just as common as a regular pet then whats the point? if you can buy a good pet for as much as you can buy a bad pet then whats that say about the "good" pet? and what about that breeder? all those people who have breeding threads, with design goals because of the market they have to sell those pets for 10K? 11K? at the most? even though they put more time and money into the project they get out of it? most of them arn't "store" players

what i'm saying is that i agree with Selestial. its what i a have been trying to do this whole time, i qoute form what i originally said in the intro of Operation: Ny'Vene [SOS] "The Ny'venes have gone from people's most favorite, to one where people are desperately trying to sell them to get more stable room" fabled pets are suppose to be hard to get ahold of and therefore harder for newbees to get, but thats not totally a bad thing. whats the point in playing a game if you already have all peaces? thats like playing Pokemon with your pokedex full at the beginning.

I think there's always new goals one can make. I can imagine spending a good deal of gold on a pet I really like if I find it to be beautiful. It's very hard to resist looking at all the gorgeous breeding projects people have come up with. I could imagine spending at least 20k or more on even a non-fabled pet I like. I have so many designs I'd like to breed towards that I have no idea where to even begin at this point. (I also have to get a bit more organized first before I restart any breeding projects.)

I think it's natural that a pet that's been out for some time will eventually become more commonplace. It's natural that the values on most of these will drop. But I think the pets that were bred with a design in mind would keep much of their value. I do understand the desire though to set a general goal towards just having any of a species with a certain amount of visible. I've done that as well. But a lot of people will be going towards that goal.

I personally think that those who were a part of a particular species becoming easily available 6-vis did something great not only for themselves but also for the community. You're a part of the history of that breed. And even if not everyone knows the names of all those involved, the work those people should be greatly appreciated.