Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=10193&page=4#40 Author: Taptothebeat Time Posted: 1/17/2014 at 10:29 PM There needs to be something in place so that pets with old genes have value. The only way I can think of, is to have a stage past 'adult' where that pet can no longer breed. If someone has a better suggestion, that would be wonderful.

Honestly I don't think that would do a thing to help old genes. It would just frustrate people who spent a ton of time getting to that pair, only to have them useless after a set number of breeds. You will still have a glut of pets with the same genes, but instead of people creating one pair to breed their end result, they will now have to breed multiple pairs to keep the "project" viable, and in the process, create even more less wanted pets along the way.

A better option would be to retire genes from the wild (and possibly the generator as well) after a few years. That way the old pets with the "lost" genes, even ones who may only carry it rather than visibly show it, will now have value.

And that is assuming that this is a problem. I don't necessarily think that it is. As new genes and mutations are added, old ones may or may not go well with it, and a good breeder will want all the tools available for their multi-vis projects. Plus, by making these suddenly rare, however you do it, you are automatically slanting the game even more toward the older players who already "have everything" in a sense. I really don't think that's all that necessary.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=10193&page=5#41 Author: Greenmann Time Posted: 1/17/2014 at 11:22 PM [quote=174917] Honestly I don't think that would do a thing to help old genes. It would just frustrate people who spent a ton of time getting to that pair, only to have them useless after a set number of breeds. You will still have a glut of pets with the same genes, but instead of people creating one pair to breed their end result, they will now have to breed multiple pairs to keep the "project" viable, and in the process, create even more less wanted pets along the way. A better option would be to retire genes from the wild (and possibly the generator as well) after a few years. That way the old pets with the "lost" genes, even ones who may only carry it rather than visibly show it, will now have value. And that is assuming that this is a problem. I don't necessarily think that it is. As new genes and mutations are added, old ones may or may not go well with it, and a good breeder will want all the tools available for their multi-vis projects. Plus, by making these suddenly rare, however you do it, you are automatically slanting the game even more toward the older players who already "have everything" in a sense. I really don't think that's all that necessary.

I think it helps have old multivis pets have value. If 6vis pets stopped breeding, it stops the supply of 6vis, creating an exclusiveness for them.

The thing with "old genes" is that they're dominant genes. So long as you have pets that have it (or essences to generate it), breeding them with any pet will make the dominant gene come out.
At least it's accessible. o: Not exactly the cleanest way, since it's essence-accessible, but...it's there.

I like the retiring of old genes/mutations in the wild. It'll help bring out the numbers of newer, more recessive genes/mutations. c:

I'm sorry, but unless the genes are retired, giving the pets a limited number of breedings doesn't really do much to make the genes more rare. If anything, it forces breeders to breed MORE pets to be able to keep viable pairs going to keep breeding that line. So, where a breeder now might limit his production to one set of parents that dropped the 6 vis pets they were looking for in the first place, what you are proposing would make them have to continually keep breeding more and more pairs to keep the line intact. I think that is exactly opposite of what you want to happen here.

Plus, what do you do with the old pair of 6 vis beauties that you can no longer breed? They are pretty, but kinda useless now, aren't they? What a sad end for what should be a rather proud achievement. And if the breeder keeps the line alive, he could end up with multiple pairs like this, which he will have to decide to either let sit there collecting dust and eating food, try and sell off the no longer breedable pairs (and therefore I expect, much less valuable), or release them. Again, seems a sad way to end your project, ultimately.

It also kind of forces breeders to hold onto more pets, since if they want a certain collection of genes, they now have to be able to get the combinations they want before the parents run out of breedings. If they don't get that set of genes, now they have to start fresh with a new group of parents... so they will be less likely to want to sell off, give away, or release the less wanted progeny, because they may need them as back ups. So now breeding projects will start to become something where you may need a ton of stables and/or tabs to be able to get to a 6 vis. I think it's overcomplicating something that should be accessible to anyone who wants to start with a one carry and take it all the way to a six vis.

This is why I don't like the thought of limiting the breeding this way. Also, none of this will change that these older genes are still dominant, so any time you breed them against the newer genes the older ones are the ones shown.

And again, I don't think this is as much a problem as you may think. Older genes may be "old hat", but with new genes coming out, some of the older genes may be exactly the things that go with them the best. I don't know that it helps to artificially make older genes suddenly rare (for new players at least... old players will probably still have them stabled). Its kind of like your saying "I've been using red, blue and green since kindergarten. But now I want to use the new yellow and orange. But will my red and blue still be worth anything?" On their own, maybe not. But add them to the new colors and you've got some cool stuff to play with.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=10193&page=3#25 Author: Savynn Time Posted: 1/11/2014 at 9:43 PM I'm not really sure how I feel about this. I've been worried though that generosity is being discouraged. Particularly when there's many ways to make gold on Sylestia.

I couldn't agree more. I had to come find this thread and add my two cents as certain people have begun buying my pets that they deem are "underpriced" and instantly releasing them. If I wanted them released, I would release them...but for whatever reason (as I explained to the individual), I wanted to give newer players a chance to have a fabled or two and thought these pets should have a chance at a home where they would be appreciated. Of course they only had a few gene/mutation points, but when I first started playing Sylestia, I bought my first Lighira for a few hundred gold and still adore them to this day. They weren't uber awesome 6 vis lighira...they were Uber awesome 0 vis lighira and I loved them just the same.

What frustrates me is that I am now trying to pay it forward and share the joy of Lighira ownership with newer, poorer players because I remember the joy they brought me. Well, it was argued that people should have to work for fabled species, and I can see that point of view... I also argue that people can work to breed and make beautiful fabled with many gene points and sell them for hundreds of thousands of gold if all you're interested in is profit. I ddon't think someone should have to pay 10k for a 0 vis 2 carry lighira, and I DONT think it should be allowed to buy and auto release other people's pets.

buy them if you want to keep them, otherwise let someone who might appreciate them have a chance to get them...

Generosity is not a deliberate attack against the Sylestia economy. It's not an attempt to keep your fabled 1 gp pets from selling for 100k. Generosity is simply generosity, and it makes some of us feel good and happy to share with others.

"... I DONT think it should be allowed to buy and auto release other people's pets.

Generosity is not a deliberate attack against the Sylestia economy. Generosity is simply generosity, and it makes some of us feel good and happy to share with others."

Sorry I sorta picked apart your quote... I just wanted to touch a few points.

Not being allowed to purchase a pet and then release it? When you purchase a pet, it is yours. It is no longer the property of the one who put it up for sale, which is generally a good indicator that the seller no longer wanted it, and you can do with it what you please. If it truly bothers you to think that someone is buying up your pets and then releasing them? Don't put them up for sale, and just be very vocal about who you want to sell to.

In this case, it isn't that generosity is being seen as a bad thing, or even that it is being discouraged. The problem is that there is no way to make it easy to be generous without jumping through an extensive amount of hoops because you not only need to be assertive in making sure that your Newbie Friendly intentions are getting out to their intended targets, but that your generosity isn't being taken advantage of by those who have it in their minds to "save" a species that is at least available to generate (or even buy with gold) at any point in time, provided you have the funds. They cost no more to generate than any of the others, they are simply rarer because they are more difficult, but not impossible, to come by.

The only truly rare or fabled of the species are the named Holiday/Event ones, who won't even pass that name on to their offspring if it happens to indeed be a pure-bred Sylesti (as an example, two of my current pups are Winter's Chill PB's, but neither have the sparkly "Winter's Chill" name). Do a quick search on any of the species, and the chance you'll find an Event pet for sale is fairly slim. Of the thousands of Griffi currently "spawned", less than 400 of them are AS/Festive/Reindeer, and none of them are for sale. They are special. They are practically collector's items, and while you could sell the offspring of them, they're not going to have the stamp of, "Oh yeah, these are one of the original ~400," on them.

Fabled species are not rare. The enormous efforts that are being done to "preserve" the rarity of the fabled species are, while full of good intentions, nearly a complete waste of time while the ability to purchase the aforementioned species are available (even via essences), and those who are breeding them near constantly are keeping them unpriced while they continue their mass breeding. For every one you may buy and "rescue," there are another two no doubt waiting to hatch. In fact, at least two of the fabled species have more adults for sale than some of the normal species.

When part of the site is directly catered to breeding, complaining about breeding seems a little silly and counter-productive. You can limit the breeding by limiting hatchery space and extending breeding recovery times, but that will not stop the breeding, just slow it. When it comes to pets, breeding is the most popular activity. The counter alone shows that. Clearly, it's a fairly big draw and until further zones are opened and there is more to do in the "end-game," breeding will happen. Quite a bit.

As it is? There are a fraction of pets being sold out of the total number of pets. I would say less than half of the current pets on this site are actually posted up for sale. So all those other pets are just chilling in stables and hatcheries, and have no effect on the economy at all aside from the fact they exist. Yes, there's 126 Adult Griffis available to buy right this second... out of over a thousand adult Griffis.

I, personally, see no difference between Fabled pets and normal pets that requires them to have special treatment. That's just me, of course. Three of the Fabled species are reliant on a season, one is practically a reward for Arena, another can be purchased, and the last is capturable at all times. On top of this, they can all be generated. I have a very hard time seeing the point of attempting to rescue what is easily obtained. In other words, why are you attempting to restrict demand when supply is ample?

I think generosity is wonderful and should be rewarded. I think those who wish to share their happy feelings should be able to without having to worry that their kindness is being circumvented, and without having to bump a thread daily and pray that their intended target (sounds so insidious!) not only sees their product, but is also someone who isn't afraid to message them and ask if they can have one of the pretties being given away.

Has an "Adoption Agency" been discussed? Perhaps one that takes stock from donations of pets by users, but the coding restricts the pets to only those without any traits at all, and only a new user (7 - 14 days old, we'll say) would be able to pick one up once every few days (or so). Perhaps once per week, the remaining pets are "flushed" from the system.

This would enable new players to possibly experience the breeding portion of the game, but they'd be unable to place un-traited pets up on a formal auction house (which would require traits), where the more experienced members who breed or catch for financial purposes would be able to put their traits/stats pets up. Have a number of pets that have traits but won't sell, and you need space? Then you can visit the shop and sell them off for scales, where they are purchased for a scale per carry, and two scales per vis.

It could be argued that this would devalue scales, and thus the items that are purchased with scales. Respectfully, I don't think the ten eggs and eight items are going to feel all that put out. If someone wants to trade in 40 6-vis pets to get the current cheapest egg, or over 100 6-vis pets to get a mutator? Let 'em. It gets unwanted pets off the island, so to speak, which seems to be one of the most common complaints. Unless your 6-vis is a Zolnixi, chances are that it'll sell for more than the cost of a mutator OR pet dye, anyway.

The "Fabled" pets sell for considerably more, even at their lowest, than the common pets. Meanwhile, we have pages and pages and pages of 1g "Common" pets, some with multiple carries and visibles. Instead of buying and releasing every Fable under 1k, why not go through and buy and release every Bulbori under 100g? What makes them any different? If you want to keep Fables rare, you should at least go through the effort of controlling the other breeds, too.

... I type too much when I've been drinking. Ahem.

tl;dr: I don't think fabled breeds are as special as some are making them out to be, while completely ignoring the other breeds that are in so much worse shape and equally deserving of love. Also, while I agree that it's silly to fuss about pet sales given the amount of content Sylestia has in comparison to other breeding sites, I do think it is reasonable to fuss about it, given that it is still part of that content and worth looking into so that people don't feel like Sylestia is "more like an adventure site that just happens to have breeding that doesn't mean much."

@Ashadelmg

Of course I realize that if someone buys a pet I put up for sale it is their right to instantly release it. I also don't need someone else to tell me how to find the release button...I know where it is. Having someone buy your pet and instantly release it is like just having them reach inteo your account and hit the release button for you. At the very least, it seems extremely rude. In that act, they are saying "I dont want this pet, but I dont want anyone else to have it either." That is frustrating to me...but as you implied with your lengthy post, there's nothing that can be done about it without going to great lengths to adopt out pets.

The way I see it, stable space is a finite resource anyway, and there's no way I have the space to hold every unwanted pet for sale indefinitely, fabled or not. Eventually I will release them myself if no one wants them, so I don't fully undrstand people's need to exert their will over me and my pets by doing something so rude.

It's just vexing that certain people decide to purposely do something that takes away from other's enjoyment of the game, especially when, in the end it yeilds very little result (except to annoy people).

Also, on a final note, I see nothing wrong with the game's economy or the current breeding system. This is the only game I think I have ever seen where people whine and complain and beg for greater restrictions. Why beg for limited hatchery space? Longer breeding recovery time? Seriously? Does the grass really seem greener over there? Why beg for limitations....

That's proof I guess that it's just impossible to please some people....

I totally agree with you and Ashadelmg. x:

I think all of these "restrictions" are just for marketability of pets (aka capitalism/consumerism) and while I don't know much more on the topic, and sometimes I guess said breeders can't really be grown ups about handling what they're given with.

For giving pets to newbies, I consider reaching out to the newbies beneficial. I know it doesn't please some people to JUST set pets for 1g. I used to, out of the goodness of my heart so to speak, PM newbies individually myself to adopt pets from me.
Some loved them. Some resold them. And it's hard to believe now that people in their want for economization of some sort go and release these pets. s:

I guess the most we can do is just let the aggressive economists do their thing.
But I kinda trust Krinadon and Faiona to do things with the system that doesn't blatantly limit everything.
You put it well: "Why beg for limitations? ...it's just impossible to please some people...."
And the people that are impossible to please are the ones that have something and want their things to appreciate in value.

:c

I consider pets being bought from me to be resold extremely rude. I had a nice lighira of me a few weeks back adopted for 1g by a user, only for that user to put it for sale at like what, 3.5k? 5k?

To that, I say, well dang lol.
Lesson learned.
But I know for a fact that I can breed better offspring, choose when to sell them, and how many I want to breed.

That being said, a lot of us players really do have the option to destroy what economy we have. Just breed what pets we have and sell them. Give those who try to release all our pets a run for their money, I guess.
(And we have a wonderful system or two going on that caters to newbies getting pets anyways.)

I wish we can just stay the way we are now. Once an NPC that buys pets for scales is put in place (or something like so), things won't be as hectic...

I agree with Flute: it would become less hectic with a NPC who you can sell pets to. Of course not for too much gold or everyone would start breeding just to sell the pets to the NPC...

The prices of pets look a bit ridiculous to me. Breeding pets is a huge part of this site, but when you can buy 6vis pets for under 5k it seems a bit silly. People dumping their pets for low prices makes me feel a bit sad as well. 1 gold for a pet, seriously? I hardly even try to sell pets nowadays. I do hope something will be implemented to set the economy straight again. It would be nice to find a challenge in breeding and obtaining multi-vis pets again :3

Why is this such big thing? The reason Sylestia is 'overpopulated' is because people like breeding pets and creating their 6-vis projects or themed pets or whatever. It's fun. Restrictions take AWAY that fun. What is the point of being able to sell a pet for 50k if it takes you 10 times more work and time to create it? You can easily make that 50k doing missions or killing stuff.

I like the idea of an NPC to set a baseline - that's neat. I would even support a cooldown period for males - which would probably raise some breeding fees too. But I think limiting hatcheries and aging pets out of breeding and a lot of the other suggestions are just going to make things harder with no real added benefit. That idea about having to put Sylestis in your stable when they're adolescents would ruin the way I handle my projects.

So I'm just going to cross my fingers and trust Krin and Fai... :-D

@Flute

I was one of those newbies you reached out to and PM'd when I first started out!! :-D

I remember it made me feel so happy to get a welcoming PM and it meant a lot that you let me adopt a pet from you without charging me tons of gold (that I couldn't afford because I was a newb!) LOL

I still have her, my Violet Ember, and I will never sell or release her! She helped me conquer the arena and will always be one of my most beloved pets:



Well anyway, the point is that sometimes these acts of kindness and generosity are not lost on people. Maybe sometimes they are, but in some other they can help new players feel more welcome in this community. I remember another person who had lots of gorgeous pets up for adoption for a mere 250 gold, and I bought some from her too (which I still have and love).

Maybe it seems to me that the "fake gold" economy of this game is less important than the friendship/kindness/generosity aspect of the game (at least to me). Those acts of kindness will certainly stick with me longer than how much gold I managed to get for a Ny'Vene or Lighira or Griffi...or whatever... >_<