I'm very apprehensive about this idea. I feel like breeding projects take long enough as is. If we're adding even more time onto what was already a very time-consuming endeavor, then I don't know that it would be worth the while when time could be better invested in other things. Time is something we are limited in, and we can never get it back.

And if the idea is to alleviate that cooldown with more items, then that's some tedious grinding and/or more money out of our pockets to do so. I understand the site needs more ways to generate revenue and player interest, but...I feel there are better ways to handle that, and better ways to handle the overpopulation of pets.

All that said, I do think adding a breeding cooldown to males wouldn't be a terrible idea. I mean, males need to take a break once and a while too, right? I could get behind the restriction applied to males, but only if we leave the females as they are. The idea that a female loses her prime over X amount of breedings means we'll have old hags that are undesirable for being bred too much. The thought of that happening is disheartening.

Krin i'm not happy with this, at all!

just look at the orders i have for offspring from my tagged pares.... waiting for them to grow up is already a month and then to add in on that time my females will take longer to recover. while geting everyone there offspring is already going to take me months with the normal recovery time.
https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=55071

for the Enchanted Explorer Ferrikki i have 20 orders already.
so it's about a month befor my pare is adult.
then first 3 eggies 7 day's recovery time.
then eggie 4 to 9 add 12 hours each, making it (eggie 4)7d 12h,(eggie 5) 8d, (eggie 6)8d 12h, (eggie 7) 9d,
(eggie 8) 9d 12h, (eggie 9) 10d.
eggie 10 has 11d and eggie 11 has 12d.
and then up until eggie 20 is all 12 days.

so that makes 3x7 + 7,5 + 8 + 8,5 + 9 + 9,5 + 10 + 11 + 10x12 = 204,5 days
agenst the normal 20 x 7 = 140 days
that is a 2 month diverents and then i have just done orders and no breeding for myself jet.

and i can already see what a nightmare my 6v max stat HD Ferrikki project is going to be. becaus i only have my own pare and with these restricetions a lot les people will not put there pets up for public breeding. meaning there is a chance i won't even be abel to do the project becaus of a lack of avelebel pets and the few that are usebel get a grazzy amount of recovery time, but well there is no other option becaus there will be no other pets avelebel for breeding. and that while working with a very smale breeding pool already is a pain becaus of pets being close related and there for not abel to breed.
(so i will be needing like what 20 extra tagged HD Ferrikki to work around this problem a bit, are you going to get me those pets becaus i can't afort that)

i think i can consider myself a experienced/veteran player, and this realy feels like i'm geting punist for other people there mass-breeding. yes i have mass-breed my HF Nephini when i was still geting them to 6v and while increasing there stats as well. but i released them becaus i refused to sell them for cheap. (i have given some to new(er) players that where having trobel with there party pets.) but everything i had no more use for i got rid off. i saw it happen, more pets up for les gold and it becaus worse and worse that is why i completly stopt selling pets. only exeption being my max stat pets and offspring from tagged pares when they just come out. (and then mostly the fabled becaus not everyone can afort geting tagged but if people like the themed they do like to get there hands on offspring)


i think having to buy hatchery tabs would be a beter solution to stopping mass breeding of useles pets (sins that is what most mass breeders do just breed randome pets and then complain about them not selling evendo they put them up for cheap) buying hatchery tabs with AP would be a good one. becaus AP you earn by playing the game, from fighting and nurtering. so that would mean that next to breeding they would have to do something els as well. and not just flud the marked with unwanted pets.
(or maby a form of sale's restrictions, pets up for public breeding having to a minimum price depending on species, gender and amount of tp)

i think GoldGryphon and Xavion both make very good arguments and i feel the same.

edit: another idea why not hand out 'permits' to responsibel breeders? the breeders with 'permits' will not have to suffer from these cool downs.

So... as a project breeder (both 6vis and max stat), I have mixed feelings about this change. I definitely agree that something needs to be done to curb the mass breedings of low-caliber pets that are dumped in sales for 1-100 gold, but I'm also not excited about the much longer time these changes might create for projects.

My initial feelings were actually 'yay! something to make projects worthwhile again!' I feel I need to explain this feeling a bit, since many of my fellow project breeders are so very against these changes: when I started breeding projects, 150,000 gold was pretty standard for a nice-looking non-fabled 6v project pet (fertile because there was no infertility philter back then). Themed projects, fabled projects, themed fabled, and wheel projects only got progressively more expensive. I remember saving and saving to be able to buy one of my favourites, and it was so satisfying to finally be able to buy the end result of another player's hard work. Max stat pets weren't even something you could buy on the market because they were *so* valuable, and infertility didn't exist, so no one wanted to let anyone but trusted friends have one, since the worth would go down the drain once they were easily breedable (like non-carefully planned 6v pets already had). These days, I see so much complaining over any pet over 10,000 gold. It makes me crazy! The beginning of the game is no harder now than it was when I started, so I know for a fact that it's possible to save up gold, not only to buy that 100k pet, but also to exchange gold for diamonds (btw, the average for gold to diamonds at that time was 2,500 - 3,000 gold per diamond, not the 2,000 - 2,200 per diamond now) and buy new stables and the exceptional genetic tester. Anyway, I've gotten off topic >> My point is, I really want to see *something* implemented that will bring the value of our pets (wild caught, exclusive, bred, project, max stat, etc) back up to something that is worth our actual time in planning and breeding (/catching/making/buying).

This all being said, I'm not entirely sold that this will do the trick. I've considered it from several angles as I've read the many responses here, and while these changes are barely implemented even now, my thoughts on them are this: why both restrictions? What I mean is, 7 days on the females is already a long restriction, why increase it? Or if you're wanting to add more time to the females, why add a restriction on the males? Personally, I think *just* adding the male restriction would make the most sense. I mean, I'm not over the moon about only being able to breed a single male 3 times every 36 hours, but it would raise the worth of males and we would have to keep more of the best ones around for projects rather than just keeping 2-3 of the best unrelated ones around. Increasing the wait time for females doesn't really add anything beneficial, to my mind. When I start a project, I start with 2 males and 1 female. Doing it this way now, I'd have to wait 7 days between each breeding at the beginning of a project (sometimes I have to breed multiple times to get offspring with more than two trait points to even get the project off the ground). With the proposed change, if I don't get good offspring within the first few breedings, I'm waiting almost two weeks between breedings with that single female. The male cooldown doesn't matter because there *are* no other females to breed them with. So you say 'just generate 2 females and 1 male', but now I'm left trying to breed males to breed back to the opposite female, and that will likely just compound the problem! The male cooldowns, however, do not impact the already frustrating beginning of a project, and only make it so later generations need more males kept than we already might. A slight annoyance, but nothing compared to what I've described with the females at the beginning. And, again, I like that this cooldown would give males worth again.

I'm thinking I had more to say about the actual proposed change, but I forget now. Anyway, wanted to address a couple of ideas others in the thread had:

Releasing contests: please, please, please, please bring these back! I'd love to see this happen at least twice a year! (I'd prefer one for every major festival, but, you know, maybe just spring and fall? Spring cleaning and a time for spirits? I mean... not spirits.... uh.... wandering through the woods? XD)

Sylesti purchasing NPC: I remember this being mentioned quite a while ago, and I still love this idea. Like a year round releasing contest. As others have mentioned, I'd love it if there were some kind of reward for releasing pets to this vendor: scales, other currency, special avatar items, something. It would go a long way to take away the stigma of releasing, since I think that's the reason a lot of people (newbies and non-newbies), don't want to release pets, no matter whether they, or others, want those pets or not.

Restriction on number of offspring/'too old to breed': please oh please never ever do either of these. I have left 3 pet breeding games that have some variation on this because I hate putting so much effort into a breeding line just to have those pets suddenly be worthless because they can no longer breed. This would be the final nail in the coffin of any project breeding. Who wants to breed for a year just to have a pair that might be able to produce offspring for 6 months and then never again?

Separate cooldowns for owners and public breeding: this I definitely want. Without it, I may never list males for breeding ever again, first because I'll need all the breedings I can get for myself, then later because I'll forget to list them for breeding when I'm done using them myself >> Having three for me and three for public would be very nice. (also, as mentioned, this is crucial for themed projects. It's sometimes hard enough getting a breeding with the *one* pet in the gene pool that has the carried trait you need >> with cooldowns involved, getting that trait will be even harder, and only one set of cooldowns for owner and public? I might never get that breeding XD)

Making traits easier to breed: probably in the minority here, but I do not want this. Maybe as a craftable, one-time use philter that makes a single breeding more likely to have traits pass on, but if it's a universal easier passing-on then we're back to the breeding of a good-looking 6v having no worth at all because it's too easy (a la regen 'projects', where regenning a 12pt pair into a perfect pair of pretties is being called a 'project', where the one purchasing those regens probably had to do no work at all except create a design. Not that these are any less lovely, but calling them 'projects' and pricing the offspring at 1,000 gold lowers the value of all other actual projects that took anywhere from 8-16 months to complete).

Philters/items to reduce cooldowns: Not sure how this would work with the permanent addition to the female's proposed cooldown (again, I'd like to suggest not adding to the female's cooldown?), but for the male's I could see these being helpful. Having a scale shop (or released pets NPC shop~? Personally I like this option more because it encourages the releasing of sub-par pets to be able to breed more nice quality pets) philter that could reduce one cooldown (or add a additional cooldown?) each would be nice. Then there could be a permanent one in the diamond shop that just gets rid of male cooldowns entirely?

Not sure if I hit on everything, but this is already super long, and I think I said everything important that I was thinking? In any case, I look forward to seeing how this experiment actually works out.

So I'll admit, I'm probably one of the breeders making trash. I love breeding two really different pets and seeing the result, and I don't release all that often. Due to my long hiatus I don't have a full handle on the economy but as soon as I came back I saw something was wrong.

I decided to start from scratch coming back. I gave away or released all my previous Sylesti and then went looking to buy a fresh start. I got 6vis Zolnixi almost immediately, in fact it was almost hard not to get 6vis (I tried since I don't like wings). I look back and I wonder why I even bothered starting "fresh" because that's not how it felt. When I decided to Breed Ryori I just stuck with what I was given, buying 6vis felt like cheating. I've bought a few but not many, it feels a bit more rewarding. Lighira I stopped buying too, but I kinda already ruined the rewarding feeling.

I think benefits to releasing, the leaderboards and an NPC doesn't really deal with the root of the problem. Those are a bandaid measure. And every released sylesti has to still be kept on the database using up more room. There needs to be a way to limit breeding, there needs to be less in circulation. I wasn't here when things were balanced so like a new user I don't even have any idea what a pet should be priced at. I vaguely recall catching and selling pretty wild pets, but in this market of 6vis for 1g that seems pointless now. So I think new users may find a new money option opens to them with the removal of mass breeding, wild pets may become slightly more valuable (especially if the wild stats thing becomes the norm).


This is not going to be a popular decision. No economic reform is when its a cure, people prefer the bandaid solutions that make them feel better but don't solve the problem. Its true in real life and its true here. The process of moving from the old economy to the new is going to be painful, people are going to kick and scream but I think the end goal will be worth it. For new users too. You may lose a few new members who joined because this site was so much easier to set up on and get valuable pets, but you'll gain the ones that want to put in the effort or have the patience for the beautiful results. A few more methods of gaining gold and I think the balance will be fine.

I have to agree this a really bad idea. i myself have horrible luck when breeding in traits. it took me on and off 2 years to breed just two vis as this kept happening

try 1
petal markings (carry)
petal wreath (vis)

try 2
petal markings (vis)
petal wreath (carry)

try 3
petal markings (carry)
petal wreath (vis)


and so on.


the reason we have an overpopulation problem is 5 fold. (and probably a few others i'm not thinking of)

1. sylestia has been around for 5+ years now.
2. sylestia now has 100k+ users
3. newbies understand squat about breeding and just breed for pretty colors then throw em for sale when they come out predictably washed out/ugly/trait less
4. Theres limited stable space
5. theres no incentive to keep prices above a certain limit.


Now theres nothing that can be done about 1,2, and 4.(theres already a good enough system in place) 3 theres guides for but most newbies don't care. What something can be done about is 5.



Instead of inplementing something that will punish those that enjoy the breeding system and creating projects why don't you finally code in that NPC that takes in pets and gives gold/scales/whatever the idea was? and to combat people just spree breeding to give to the NPC you could put in a limit each day or such. i think 30 would be good enough for the average person. ..also there'll be no excuse to not know what it is as the first time a newbie breeds a pet that crazy hair scientist shows up to drag them over and show the sanctuary/resort/wildlife preserve/ect. NPC.


putting more breeding cooldowns will remove pets from breeding listings and increase breeding fees and won't actively combat the above problems just punish those doing projects. pets will still be bred en masse. and they'll still be thrown for sale for entirely too low....also en masse. And they'll still most likely be ugly too. which means no one will buy em. which means they'll sit there and lower prices and clog the search.

Not sure I like this, tbh. Though I am new here, I understand breeding schemes rely heavily on being able to breed a lot of Sylesti in hopes that the traits "stick", and if you put a cooldown on the breeding, that makes that process more drawn out and relying on RNG. That seems like it would punish new players, as well as those trying to get that certain set of traits.

I don't think a way to make SURE certain traits carry through would really be in the spirit of breeding though, so I wouldn't suggest that, but maybe being able to sell the extra pets off for scales? Then less desireable offspring would not clog up the market; scales would not mess with the economy as much as gold would either, which is why I suggest that. (If the player is really after gold, they would still have to sell to other players).

And for those that are squirmy about selling off or releasing the unwanted pets (like me, lol), you could maybe set up a "portfolio book" where you can kind of...paste pictures of your favorite released pets--so you still "have them", you just can't use them for breeding or battle in any way. I'm not sure what effect this would have on server load, though it seems like this data is in the system anyway, that something remembers the released pets and who they belonged to...? So it would just be putting it all together in one place for the player to look at.

Another suggestion is to make use of the inbred stat for...something. Like maybe the more inbred the pet is, the more likely they are to incur this cooldown, or have lower stats. (Which makes sense from an in-world perspective too--inbreeding can lead to health issues.) This way you set up a market where players search for more pets to add to their breeding pool, increasing value of wild-caught sylesties as well as "well-bred" project pets. There would also be a reason for more players to use the "stud feature" (putting pets up for breeding, but not for sale), as you would need a larger pool to draw from that most players could not keep, so it would be a more communal effort to get good breeding.

The Wild Stats I think I could go along with, though I'm not sure it would have the desired effect. It seems to put a cap on how many generations you can have before a pet becomes "useless" stat-wise, and that also goes against the notion of putting a lot of effort into breeding over many generations to get the pets you want.

I don't think this is going to work as intended, but I am reserving judgement for now to see how ferrikkis go. I have only one comment to make.

Please don't make the game even more geared towards "pay to win" or "spend your life clicking eggs" by implementing items to reduce the breeding time. I hope I read that part wrong. -_-

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=57948&page=7#64 Author: Amaya Time Posted: 2/22/2018 at 3:24 PM So I'll admit, I'm probably one of the breeders making trash. I love breeding two really different pets and seeing the result, and I don't release all that often. Due to my long hiatus I don't have a full handle on the economy but as soon as I came back I saw something was wrong. I decided to start from scratch coming back. I gave away or released all my previous Sylesti and then went looking to buy a fresh start. I got 6vis Zolnixi almost immediately, in fact it was almost hard not to get 6vis (I tried since I don't like wings). I look back and I wonder why I even bothered starting "fresh" because that's not how it felt. When I decided to Breed Ryori I just stuck with what I was given, buying 6vis felt like cheating. I've bought a few but not many, it feels a bit more rewarding. Lighira I stopped buying too, but I kinda already ruined the rewarding feeling. I think benefits to releasing, the leaderboards and an NPC doesn't really deal with the root of the problem. Those are a bandaid measure. And every released sylesti has to still be kept on the database using up more room. There needs to be a way to limit breeding, there needs to be less in circulation. I wasn't here when things were balanced so like a new user I don't even have any idea what a pet should be priced at. I vaguely recall catching and selling pretty wild pets, but in this market of 6vis for 1g that seems pointless now. So I think new users may find a new money option opens to them with the removal of mass breeding, wild pets may become slightly more valuable (especially if the wild stats thing becomes the norm). This is not going to be a popular decision. No economic reform is when its a cure, people prefer the bandaid solutions that make them feel better but don't solve the problem. Its true in real life and its true here. The process of moving from the old economy to the new is going to be painful, people are going to kick and scream but I think the end goal will be worth it. For new users too. You may lose a few new members who joined because this site was so much easier to set up on and get valuable pets, but you'll gain the ones that want to put in the effort or have the patience for the beautiful results. A few more methods of gaining gold and I think the balance will be fine.

I think it is hard to identify what "trash" is, to be honest. Is any pet with less than x number of visible traits to be considered "trash"? Or any pet with "muddy" colors (anything that isn't distinctly blue, green, red, etc.? I am one of those weird collectors that has pets with no visible/carried genes at all but who fit the "look" of a character I have created, or that simply look pretty to me that I value over many of the 6 vis pets I have seen in the trade broker. That isn't really the point here except to point out that it is hard to define what pet is "valuable," and what is "trash." It could even be said that the more you have to pay for a pet defines how valuable a pet is.

Do I think that there needs to be some kind of change? Absolutely. But if you want to thin out the market and make pets more valuable, I don't know if adding a few more days between breedings is really much of a deterrent. I am aware that this will be a very unpopular suggestion, but I like the idea of something along the lines of this:

Males have no breeding limits as far as when they can be bred as adults. But a male can only be bred, say...100 times in his life? 1000 maybe? Those breedings could be used to generate income (public breeding studs, or auctioned breeding sessions), for personal reasons, breeding projects, and so on.

Females, on the other hand would have stricter limits. They could be bred maybe once a month? But if you release the hatchling (or the egg before it hatches), that would reset the clock immediately, allowing her to be bred the moment the egg/hatchling is released. This would make it easier to work around failed offspring.

In addition to that, the number of offspring they can have could be limited. Possibly 3-5, with an option to buy items to allow for additional offspring up to 10-15 max?

It is true that projects would take longer, and many would be harder to achieve. But if the ultimate goal is to thin out the market and make what is available for sale be more valuable, that would definitely do it.

I can see where everyone is coming from. This is a pet breeding site and to limit pet breeding seems to defeat the purpose of the site. I can also see how people only want the best of the best bred and nothing else.

For me, I like taking wild pets that are available only during the seasonal festivals with two similar carry slots and breeding until I get a one vis, then taking those one vis and breeding two different slots together to get a two vis and so on. As is, with the horrible rate of passing a vis, even a carry to a carry, after months I only have a handful of one vis pets to start the next round of breeding. If we put penalties on the pets, it'll take longer just to get to the next stage. It won't be worth my time to breed anymore.

As for not wanting the casual players to flood the market with 'useless pets', what one might find useless another might find valuable. Not everyone is going to play the same way. Not everyone is going to want the same thing. There are those who want these 'useless pets' for their own reasons. Pretty much banning them because they're common and not the cream of the crop (by making breeding even harder than it is now) doesn't seem like a smart move.

If it ends up that only the elite breeders can breed and the common player can't because of breeding penalties and restrictions, this site will no longer be a pet breeding site, at least in my opinion. I was looking forward to completing my goals of breeding 3-6 vis pets from scratch and then working those results into max stats, but now it seems like a waste of time. I'll stick with the site for now and try to cram in my projects as much as I can before all breeds get these penalties. After that, we'll have to see. I might just drop everything and quit.

This site seems to be getting more and more difficult to play. not 'challenging' - just hard. for casual players especially. it takes more and more time to do even the 'fun' things.

introducing the high stress leaderboard contests that require hours at a time of constant battling. (players in region chat saying they're afraid to go to bed or they'll lose there placing)

festival events that require diamond shop purchases for EVERYTHING (even just making the cupids/ pookas easier to encounter/ defeat would improve this aspect)

maybe i'm stupid, but the complicated planning required for breeding projects and battle builds are over my head. none of the guides and explanations available to me have been helpful.

increasingly high cost of stable/ inventory tabs (even decreasing increments would be a huge bonus. especially for those of us with 20+ stables) make saving nearly impossible - the only way to make a good amount of money is missions, which, honestly, take forever to train up the pets when you don't play hours every day and on top of that i don't set missions every single day.

nice new megazone with zero healing. i have max stat pets to use (bought from another user, because no way in hell i can manage that myself) that can go maybe a dozen or so battles before i have to exit the zone to heal, requiring my to re-enter the zone and start all over. (which may be temporary, fine, but i can't battle enough to raise my pets experience and levels and that little change is incredibly frustrating)

i just don't have the time or attention span for all of this. i don't know how users with children or schooling do it.

now a 12 day breeding cooldown cap? 7, fine. (more for fabled, exclusive, even tagged fest pets ok) but 12? you're deciding to essentially limit the breeding ability of females to twice a month. that will be rough on new players that get a large amount of pets to breed/ sell. especially since less breeding means higher sale-priced pets. when i was starting out, i relied on the generous users who sold pets really cheaply.

add to that the increasingly hostile users i'm encountering in region chat every festival, and i'm close to quitting.

Well. My frustrated rant is over now, and i probably wasn't able to express what i mean properly, so i think i'll go brace myself for the attacks i'm about to get for anything i've said. Please don't be offended if i don't reply.