I also feel an overwhelming need to express how bothersome it is to me to come to a PET SITE and see the 'not perfect' pets referred to as trash.

my stables are full of pets i love that apparently are now considered garbage.

really great.

To add on to what i said earlier... We simply just don't have an incentive for people to get rid of their pets except "i've run out of stable space and can't buy another stable yet". and the options for getting rid of pets are " I can profit" or " i release this pet for nothing".

In that sort of system profit will always be the first choice unless they're a wise/experienced/veteran breeder and often these pets will sit for days,weeks,months and even years (for higher priced fabled themeds.) Meanwhile theres still pets being bred while those are sitting, and those too will be put for sale...and more will be bred. its a never ending system.

Look at what happens when we have a release contest in a festival. The prices get driven up sometimes into 30k depending on the species. and within a month we're back to hundreds and hundreds and maybe thousands of 1k and under pets..that look like dishwater and have little to no traits.

maybe something could be set up where the NPC teaches about breeding and gives rewards(maybe something like untradable wardobe items/ unlock more things to buy with ap so theres not a huge gold flood) for learning how breeding works?

If such an NPC were to exist it would stablize prices,( after a certain price point its not worth buying things off the search for it) encourage giving pets to the NPC(and therefore possibly wiping them from the database) which would ease strain on the server, and just overall encourage people to think better about what they're doing.





slightly off topic--

Maybe at some point it could be considered to ask the userbase(expecially older members) if they want to reclaim any of the pets they've released and if they don't want to eventually reclaim em(so those without the diamonds can have time) those pets would be wiped from the server. It would take herculean effort but it might help if it could be pulled off.

While I too dislike the exact language used it's going to happen on any website that has breeding. Its a fact of the economy that there are going to be less valuable pet, doesn't mean less valuable to its owner, but in a communal economic sense. And the fact of the matter is these pets end up getting sold for low prices (because they don't otherwise sell) and bring the value of the entire market down.

Trash is not the best term exactly, but "less valuable" or "low value" is more word intensive. You don't have to like what every body else likes but market value is important.

For example I have a stuffed bunny next to me, he's old and has a few stains but I love him. However I wouldn't consider him valuable, and with the stuff stuck in his fur and stains others might consider throwing him out. I accept that is the truth of him to others but that doesn't change my view, that's what I think about my low value pets I keep too.

psst... wash the bunny. things shouldn't be stuck in his fur. :x

EDIT: i read your post aloud - my brother just grabbed his worn out old teddy bear best friend and hugged the stuffing out of it, grinning. XD

I'm in favour of this even though I don't like it. No one likes nerfed features. That's a fact. I've played plenty of games that involved the nerfing of overpowered characters or systems. Of course there's going to be panic, rage-quit threats and resistance. That's a normal response. People like their OP features. HOWEVER, nerfing is essential for the long term health of the game. It's good for game balance, economy, keeps the game challenging.

Right now. I'm sorry to say, but breeding is not challenging or worth it. With the breeding system we have, if you want to get a pet with specific traits, the best way to do it is to literally just mass breed things until the hiddens show up as vis.

As a good example: I did that with my lune pre revamp: I just blindly mashed all the pets together into a big soup pot until it spat out rare traits. That's not good, that's lazy. And with the lack of restrictions, my stables are actually now flooded with moths. They are all regenerable, but they're not as profitable as they should be. There are actually way too many regen lunes in the game (because I certainly wasn't the only one doing this). Now generally the value of a 6 vis full regen should be worth upwards of 50k. But that's not really what we're seeing. Its the same with max stats, and 6 vis themed. They should all be worth a lot more than what they're sold for currently.

I think the new proposed system will be interesting to try out. Firstly, have a breeding cooldown on males is a very good start. I agree with Vevina in this respect. One way to stop the 'blind mass breeding mentality' is to apply a cooldown to males. This will also at least make them more valuable.

I also think that having a limited number of breeds before an increased cooldown will actually work in the long run (if we, the players, can adapt to it). Its not so big of an issue if you plan the project very carefully before you start it, dedicate time to find high quality pairs before you start breeding, and then breed selectively for the highest results on a first try. This will greatly increase the value of finding special wild caughts! it increases the value of unbred pets. It should also increase the value of unbred offspring. Which is very good because people really don't care for buying offspring unless they happen to be finished. It also fosters a different mindset to breeding, where people will pay more thought and attention to what they're doing, rather than just being lazy (like me) and using probability.

I do, however, agree that this system will be too difficult in cases where a breeding pair both have 6 carries, or if a trait is so rare that there might only be one or two of it in existence. However, this will increase the incentive for item use: disrupting, mutating, etc. Might I suggest adding an item that can turn a hidden into a vis? And also an item that can simply remove a hidden, making a vis monozygous

Finally, while this might be a problem for those who put their pets up for public breeding, it also provides incentive for people to put their pets up for much higher prices. Savynn and others are right that the system should be separated for public vs private breeding. This should also foster more collaboration and teamwork based breeding.

To those of you who have just started playing the game and are threatening to rage-quit over this. Please reconsider. You've just started the game, and the level of some of you are quite low, so you haven't even unlocked any of the best gold-earning features yet. Be Patient. I cannot stress this enough. Breeding has no effect on the battling system (unless we're talking about stat breeding but even stat breeding is unaffected by this system if you're following flutes guide). As a newbie, the most important thing you an do is to unlock the story-line through quests and battling. And breeding projects will actually hinder your progress (because of reduced stable space and gold costs in feeding). Once you unlock things like missions, and better items, it gets much easier to get gold.

edit: i forgot to mention but yes breeding finished offspring for an order list like xavion mentioned is a big issue. Perhaps that could be fixed by adding a feature that allows people to buy offspring without you having to make them? So for example, you put the pet up into a separate sales section. Someone clicks 'order' and they literally get an egg, and the gold is sent to the seller, but the parents don't have to breed for that egg to be made?

I'm on every single day multiple times a day. The lack of restrictions has been one of my favorite things about breeding. It really doesn't make much sense to limit males since it real life when a man and women or animal male or female breed the men can breed again and again without repercussion. I use my males to experiment with colors and traits with different females which already takes a long time. Also it will degrade the value of the gender swapping filters which a lot of players use in order to breed certain traits out more quickly by making them males. I really do no like this idea as a person who ONLY plays for the breeding. I also believe this will hurt the fact that players put males up for breeding for extra money, I almost guarantee most players will stop all together or make it more expensive to breed them where as now it's cheaper and easier to find males to breed. I know I personally ask player for rights to breed with their males and this will make it MUCH harder

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=57948&page=7#70 Author: Hawkins Time Posted: 2/22/2018 at 4:33 PM This site seems to be getting more and more difficult to play. not 'challenging' - just hard. for casual players especially. it takes more and more time to do even the 'fun' things. introducing the high stress leaderboard contests that require hours at a time of constant battling. (players in region chat saying they're afraid to go to bed or they'll lose there placing) festival events that require diamond shop purchases for EVERYTHING (even just making the cupids/ pookas easier to encounter/ defeat would improve this aspect) maybe i'm stupid, but the complicated planning required for breeding projects and battle builds are over my head. none of the guides and explanations available to me have been helpful. increasingly high cost of stable/ inventory tabs (even decreasing increments would be a huge bonus. especially for those of us with 20+ stables) make saving nearly impossible - the only way to make a good amount of money is missions, which, honestly, take forever to train up the pets when you don't play hours every day and on top of that i don't set missions every single day. nice new megazone with zero healing. i have max stat pets to use (bought from another user, because no way in hell i can manage that myself) that can go maybe a dozen or so battles before i have to exit the zone to heal, requiring my to re-enter the zone and start all over. (which may be temporary, fine, but i can't battle enough to raise my pets experience and levels and that little change is incredibly frustrating) i just don't have the time or attention span for all of this. i don't know how users with children or schooling do it. now a 12 day breeding cooldown cap? 7, fine. (more for fabled, exclusive, even tagged fest pets ok) but 12? you're deciding to essentially limit the breeding ability of females to twice a month. that will be rough on new players that get a large amount of pets to breed/ sell. especially since less breeding means higher sale-priced pets. when i was starting out, i relied on the generous users who sold pets really cheaply. add to that the increasingly hostile users i'm encountering in region chat every festival, and i'm close to quitting. Well. My frustrated rant is over now, and i probably wasn't able to express what i mean properly, so i think i'll go brace myself for the attacks i'm about to get for anything i've said. Please don't be offended if i don't reply.

I have a little one and being a parent is definitely busy. I usually get on during maps or after bedtime. I can understand your frustration with certain things.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=57948&page=3#25 Author: Krinadon Time Posted: 2/22/2018 at 10:59 AM [quote=1173681] I'll mention what we were tossing around in Region Chat a little bit ago. One thing that this could open the door for is items/features to reduce said cooldowns. These items would be targeted for the Scale Shop (to help make Scales/Nurturing more valuable) with Diamond Shop alternatives (for those not wanting to nurture but still wanting the items). This would put the control into the hands of the more experienced/veteran players who, for the most part, don't flood the markets with a billion pets and have better understanding of pricing and worth. Whereas newer players would have a barrier to work towards and progress towards to eventually pass through (advance their account, nurture, etc). In general, Sylestia has a massive lack of just "items". It's one of the major focuses of content changes for the revamp. We want to add a lot more to do, collect, and customize. Things like this would definitely fall into that category. So, that's another possibility here as well. And again, just to stress and why I mentioned it a few times in the original post and the title, this is testing the feature out. It's locked to one species that we can get very good results from because it's untainted so far as it's been available for like 4 or 5 days and it's something we are specifically looking to test and get feedback on. So I would strongly advise to everyone not to dramatically change their plans, etc, over this announcement. All this implementation does for now is just add some extra time to males who breed more than once every 12 hours and to females who end up harboring a dozen+ children. And in both cases, it's just a bit more time involved to get desired results or an extra male or so to skip that extra time.

Thank-you for your reply Krin, I do appreciate it. I like the idea of items/features to reduce cool downs. I worry about using Nurturing as the way to get the items.... as the nurturing system is quite slow and sorry to say, for me it is boring. The breeding system does need a fix, I do understand all of that. And I do understand that this is an experiment to see how thing work out.

I am willing to try it out and see how it works. Again, reserving my judgement on the whole thing. But I do want to voice one frustration I have with this.... why couldn't you have mentioned it before the release? Or right at the release? I was so excited on starting a 6vis/max stat of the Enchanted Explorer Ferrikki, I dropped an enormous amount of diamonds and gold picking up 4 more of the tagged pets last night. On top of that, I dropped 5 Arcanist Disruptors and a regular disruptor to get all 4 of the restricted traits on my EE 'Rikkis last night. Truthfully, I would not have spent all the money/gold I did if I had known about this breeding restriction. I would have approached my project completely different. I definitely would not have put on restricted traits for one. Past that, I would have tried to trade some pets I have for other traits or disrupted a couple, to get 6 carry pets when bred. Basically, I feel pretty much blind-sided by this change and wish you had given notice before or at the Ferrikkis release.

We did some calculations with one of our nytes from our project to work out how long breeding our 4th gen would have taken (we aren't a mass breeder, we have only one project, and it's personal, and we breed it by picking out two from each pair from each gen and using them for the next gen. Our 4th gen took the longest to breed, with 24 offspring from each pair, and a total of 80 days difference in age between the eldest and youngest), if regular species had the same kind of cooldown as a fabled, because obviously the ferrikki numbers given are all we have to work with.
155 days. Ye gods.

Anyhow, thoughts on the matter, relating to alternative methods.

1: Unrefined thought: Baseline prices for like... certain amounts of Trait Points.
So, an untested no-vis has to be sold for at least x amount of G, while a 6-vis tested pet has to be at least yG
(at the very least some kind of base pricing system would do something about 1G 6-vis pets that are just lying around)
(however, eggs, and untested hatchlings, would make this complicated)


2: our better thought, a Hatchery alteration
At the moment, users can have literally infinite hatchery slots, so they can just breed wildly to their heart's content with little to no care about the offspring results.
So suggestion:
Have maybe two base pages to the hatchery, with the ability to get more pages by either
buying- a permanent addition-
and/or
renting- which expires eventually, like stablehands (It'd probably have to keep the pages over the 'expiry' if there were offspring, but if a person was using 'rented' pages that were to try and breed without renewing it, it'd say 'you cannot breed, you don't have the space'?)

Maybe with a max amount of 'buyable' pages, and rentable ones being 'bonus' regardless of how many 'owned' hatchery space you had?

Maybe also based in AP- need to have at least xAP to be able buy more, and costs xAP to buy/rent new ones? (AP isn't really used for much, so)

It would probably help cut down on wild newbie breeding experimentation, while still allowing it, and it would mean there wouldn't be people with like. 100+ hatchery pages or whatever of muddy 0- or 1- vis pets (those give me waking nightmares)


I'm feeling an agreement to some of the other suggestions, like, giving some form of an incentive to release pets via some NPC rather than selling high-vis bred pets for next to nothing?

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=57948&page=8#71 Author: Katelynn4545 Time Posted: 2/22/2018 at 4:39 PM So Not really thrilled about the breeding cool down, I feel as a fabled the females get a six day cool down anyway that's a long time if your trying to breed a project even if you have pies. Not to mention it will make the Drive for Players to breed pets at all go down to what I think would be a bit unhealthy. However I do highly agree the market has been flooded and has made some pets undesirable. As far as the Market go's, I think it would be neat to do a set day period in which the pet can be sold like Broker. Like I can set my PB Nixis up for 15k a piece for 7 days, and after day 7 they come off the market And I would have to relist them, this is helpful be cause after so many notifications I may just bite the bullet and release the pet, Which I think brings me to another issue. If pets Producers see as valuable take too long to sell they are tempted to think they are not worth what they put them up for, and thus lower the price until the pet sells which dilutes the market as well. "Instead of implementing something that will punish those that enjoy the breeding system and creating projects why don't you finally code in that NPC that takes in pets and gives gold/scales/whatever the idea was? and to combat people just spree breeding to give to the NPC you could put in a limit each day or such. i think 30 would be good enough for the average person. ..also there'll be no excuse to not know what it is as the first time a newbie breeds a pet that crazy hair scientist shows up to drag them over and show the sanctuary/resort/wildlife preserve/ect. NPC." -Ferlioan I have to agree this would probably work wonders as there are pets I want to get rid of, but I don't want them to sit in the market for forever, but their worth enough gold that I don't want to release them ( because A that takes WAY too much time and is a bit aggravating) and as an older player whose a bit more well oriented with breeding I know I would use it when necessary, But you don't want to flood the system with gold or anything either. I actually thin making it like a running Task may work well too..... And for that I have two Ideas! First is the Amount Based Task This Task like System works where players can send any pets to the reserve and have daily goals as follows 5 pets = 1000 AP 10 pets = 1000 gold 25 pets =100 scales (which too be honest I wish there were more ways of earning scales than just nurtures) 100 pets = 5000 gold 250 pets = 1 Diamond and possibly capp it at that so they can release more if they waited for say 10 gold / pet over 250 The other Idea Is a Task system that involves restrictions Like the same requirements above follows but Friday is zolnixi only and Tuesday is Griffis with astral wings. * edit Wanted to add something we were talking about in discord * So if the NPC reserve thing were to be a tried solution then Releasing could do a bit of changing to relieve it of its negative stigma, Especially since you can reclaim pets. Maybe change the name to Boarding or something along those lines like you send pets off to this nice resort and you have to pay for them to come back. For pets we aren't sure if we want to get rid of or not yet XD

I really like the idea for the amount based task!