Thank you Kirin for explaining the revamp and doing the revamp. It takes real talent and dedication to do it so thank you for a very amazing game.

*I wrote this message before the updated message but I still want to post it*

I'm not gonna lie but I'm a bit disappointed. Like many others, I spent time breeding out 6vis lups which took up a whole stable. Now I have this stable with over 100 ugly lups. I mainly bred them with the intention of regenerating them and recoloring them, also selling to other players. And like many others I also spent quite a lot of money (300k or 400k on a purebred, max stat lup), so I'm hoping that I can update all the colors and regen because I don't want it look like a hot mess after the revamp.

Back to the 100+ lup situation...lups have always been one of my fav species and I was very excited about the revamp. When the revamp was announced, I put in a lot of my time releasing some of my non 6 vis lups and keeping the 2 or so that I had and mass bred for more 6 vis lups. I had to keep this up for my whole summer in order to gain the number i have now since they wouldn't grow up until 25+ days later.

One of things I don't agree with is the "economy problem" Tbh the economy usually improves in my opinion and from what I've seen from past revamps. This is one of the main reasons why I even bred lups. The revamps would probably go for around 50k or more. Even right now they're being sold for 35k+. Plus people will still buy the essence in diamond shops for the traits that aren't accessible in the regen/ new traits which has happened in the past.

Pet design is the most important thing in this game. So taking away regenerating and not giving full access to recoloring really defeats the main purpose in this game. Many people have waited for this revamp and were excited to start breeding projects with the lup's new look but without features like regenerating and recoloring, it'll be really hard for people to take interest in making breeding projects since it'll be hard to obtain certain traits or dyes.

In conclusion, I think that we should still get regen and recolor for lups but now that we've learned the new regen and recolor process, it should be implemented in future revamps. Or we should at least be able to recolor.

Ah~ See, the reference to 'lupora economy' makes far more sense when we're talking about actual real life money and diamond purchases to buy essences to, more or less directly, recoup real costs for making the revamp happen. I don't think having 12 pt trait regens would destroy this (after all, you can't regen any traits that weren't originally available to the species, usually). For any projects involving traits released with the revamp, or released later, we still need to buy essences to make that happen. One of my post revamp aurleon projects required just that. There were two "new" traits I wanted to include, so I couldn't just make a pair of 6v regenned pets and call it a day. I had to buy at least one essence (enhanced because I'm cheap and never buy mythical ever XD), then I had to buy a few greater dyes because I had a bunch of super sharp colours involved in the project, plus blacks and whites. Only one example, I know, but there are always new, pretty traits coming out that you *can't* regen (and I'm pretty sure that's why we have 12 point regens sitting around years later XD people want to use the new traits that they can't use on those pets).

Anyway, I understand if full trait regens just aren't going to happen. Just wanted to, well, put my two cents in now that I know which lupora economy we're talking about XD

Thanks! So the first 3 (vul, qit, drae I believe) had no re-gens (and very little announcement and no user input, but that's a bit beside the point). Nixis could re-gen some traits, but no colors. Vorpas were changed so much, they got both. Morkko re-gens were just triggered by leaf veins. Certain traits triggered aurleon re-gens too, not all of them were re-genable.

And like I said, lots of people don't remember or weren't here for that, and are now used to the full re-gens of the most recent revamps (kelps, venes, puffs, lunes - which were admittedly awesome!). I just meant to say that if the idea of a partial re-gen had been heavily advertised from the get-go, I think it could have saved some people from feeling like their efforts collecting and breeding for months were wasted. :)

And maybe there's no way to tell from the beginning of the revamp process what the re-gen possibility will look like - but I think it's better to be up front about the fact that it's never been guaranteed. Even a guess at what traits might be affected the most would be helpful, in my opinion.

Anyway, I think I've blabbed about this enough. Thanks for clarifying and I hope you get to love all your new lups soon~

====

Thanks for the new update Krin. I really appreciate the breakdown of generated vs. tamed vs. offspring pets, it helps a lot. I think you have a fair balance on that front, especially with your consideration of essence and offspring pets. :)

Ah. I must admit that I hadn't given much thought to Luporas from Essences. I buy a lot of Mutators and Dyes, but I don't use Essences at all. I see Krin's point about the site economy as a whole, and we all want to keep Sylestia going.

That said, I am not yet convinced that fully re-gen'able pets keep people from buying Essences. Re-vamps generally come with the introduction of new traits, which the re-gen'able pets cannot get (unless they are Tamed pets that can be mutated). What I had hoped for was re-gen'able, Tamed Luporas that would let me use the Trait Points from a trait that I did not like--moving the trait out of the way of a new trait that I could add via a Greater Mutator, if necessary. This would result in me buying a lot of Greater Mutators, but I am okay with that.

Since Krin can see the site's records, and I cannot, I'm prepared to be proved wrong. Perhaps Essence purchases from the site do drop severely after a species becomes re-gen'able, to a degree that isn't made up by purchases of GGMs.

Not arguing with anyone, just explaining my perspective. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread, already in progress.

"However, I can see full Color Re-Gens for Offspring pets being fair. So I think that's what the plan would be at this time."

That's enough to satisfy me!

Especially given that Mech Helm losing the visor has basically killed the ONLY three Lupe projects I had 100% complete with breeding pairs for... Deathstroke, Deadpool, and especially Master Chief (Master Chief without a visor..? Nope, that definitely ain't gonna work; after the revamp it won't be Master Chief.) As long as I can change the colors to scheme on what pets and traits I've got to work with, then even if I have to spend another year breeding the right trait combination together from the recolored ones to give my projects some sort of mask back, I can build new pairs. Hopefully... If not then expect to see me throw up ideas for masks on the Lupes every time there's a new trait competition so I can eventually generate or restricted trait disrupt something in and breed back to 6V and maxed stats... again. Which brings me to my next point!

"If there's thousands of 12 TP Re-Gens for sale years from now, why is someone going to buy an Essence from the Diamond Shop? They won't (unless they just don't know any better). They will just buy a 12 TP Re-Gen for a fraction of the cost and instantly create their perfect pet."

I do have ONE note of exception to this bit. New traits. Using a combination of essence-generated Ny'vene and maxed stats regens, I went out of my way on even more years worth of projects just to get the traits that I couldn't acquire through regen. Quetzalcoatl, Warmonger, Cosmic Moon, and Scion of the Storm. Got the moons cleared to add the Cosmic Mutations and the Night Glow Genes, got the Thunderstorms cleared to add the Feathered Mutations as well as Lightning Wings and Water Tabby. Shamefully only about 80% done on the others because other projects, other species, and the painfully long process it took to get Bahamut complete took precedent... I'll get there eventually, lol.

Admittedly new traits are few and far between with the majority of new traits of late being restricted sets with philters anyway... but it is proof that essences aren't made entirely redundant? Sounds minor, yeah, but Mikazukichan and Spelf did mention the same thing so I know it's not just me at least ^^; And I'm sure that the restricted sets bring in much more than a regular new trait, especially because theme, lol.



But I digress. I know I say this often but you really are the best admin I've ever seen, Krin. Thanks for the patience and understanding :)

Hello everyone I am new and(i was wandering if you have any sylesties for a cheap heap of 500 gold?

For the site, I think the less re-gen the better! I would honestly minimize it as much as possible. As a player, I am greedy and want more re-gens, but they just don't make sense for such a large scale. For aurleons, I feel I'll never need an essence again. >_<')

While I am a bit baffled that people storing lots of lupora with the expectation of a full-trait-recolor and then being disappointed and losing gold is actually considered a problem -- I have nothing against adding a warning next time; it seems like a fine idea! Props to those who suggested. :)

Betting comes with consequences and nothing is guaranteed. Perhaps in some ways, this was a very lucky lesson learned for those who feel it has been unfair. As this is a friendly pet-site, and losing some gold is trivial compared to something that could actually affect one's life in a scary way.

Also this is just me, but even though I do hoard the species beforehand out of greed as a player, I don't think it's good. I kind of view it like a get-rich-quick scheme that skirts around the way the site is intended to run. So, I wish there were incentive against it. Unsure what the best solution is. But just to throw something out there to start some brainstorming, one could place a breeding tax on a species while it is in the process of being revamped. This way there is less incentive to breed a whole stable full prior to the revamp.

From an economical standpoint, this makes sense to me.

As nice as it would be to allow everyone to fully revamp their pets, it really isn't practical. And I do deeply appreciate that you'd treat purebreds like themes in locking their updated colors. Again, from an economic standpoint, it makes the most sense to have purebreds that still look like their original themed parentage.

For those who still seem disappointed that purebred colors are locked, think of it this way. During/after festivals when you're scanning the broker and see a themed pet who has been dyed, how do you feel about the value of that pet? It's not worth as much to you anymore, right?

And for those of you who are upset that your offspring pets are not getting fully regened traits, Krin has stated several times that most of the artwork change is not dramatic. And just from what we've seen so far in the forums and through social media, this is true. The traits so far previewed are cleaned, polished, more elegant versions of what previously existed. If you like the traits on the offspring before, chances are you still will now with some modification to make sure the colors are still working for you. If you bred it just to try to get high trait points for reassignment when this revamp came about (it happens), then I'm sorry, but in my opinion that is irresponsible breeding. Sylestia's economy depends heavily on supply and demand. Creating more pets than you'll likely be able to sell for your desired prices in the hopes that a revamp will save you and enable you to make these pets more desirable for the masses does not in any way help this economy.