It was Katherines decision to take down the video, no one forced her to do it and she stated that *she* felt that taking it down was the best course of action. Native American is broad term as well, and the Wendigo is specific to the Algonquin people. Not everyone knows this, not even some native people.

I'm a member of the Chippewa tribe, but since I live so far away I'm really not a good representative despite being Algonquin. I only knew of the Wendigo for its hollywood and story interpretations and faintly that it had something to do with the native peoples. This is obviously, because its glorified as a horrible monster without actually knowledge the culture which it came from. Which is sad, I wish I was in better touch with my own heritage. But I do remember some stories my dad knew that were passed down from his grandfather, and based off those making a Wendigo doll is just... kind of cringey? Its a glorification of a spiritual creature that existed for a reason. It's not a fictional halloween creature that can so easily be made into a fun spooky doll. I really support people doing their research into other cultures like Katherine did, but I can see why people might have been upset about it. I'm withholding the particularly nasty stories about the creature that I heard because it wouldn't be appropriate for Sylestia.

Regardless, I don't know how you can argue on the side of Katherine when she herself apologized and took the video down, linking in the description a few informational texts that she could find on the subject. I don't agree with the people who attacked her for it, but I also acknowledge that some of the people who asked her to take it down *weren't* attacking her.

And there were definitely Algonquin people who were upset about it.... who is anyone else to say that their concerns aren't important and disrespect their wishes because someone else said it was okay? Culture and beliefs are not always meant for sharing, some things cannot be shared or the population does not *want* to share it. The same way that culture/religion should not be forced it shouldn't be treated as something that other people can just 'have'.

This is not preschool, we don't have to share our toys if we don't want to. And if we *do* lend you our toy it's usually expected that you respect whatever rules we assigned to it when we gave it to you. If we tell you not to chew on it or draw on it then you probably shouldn't because it's not yours and obviously the person will be mad when you hand it back after chewing on it. It's not unknown that some traditions and cultures *have* wrecked after being shared, or even just outright stolen without credit or asking the people how *they* felt about it. Stealing toys and breaking toys is not good manners.

It seems you're conflating cultural appropriation with cultural diffusion. Cultural diffusion simply refers to the spreading of culture, which is what you describe in your post. Cultural appropriation refers specifically to using cultural elements without acknowledging its cultural origins or doing it in an inappropriate manner. Issues generally arise when cultural elements are taken from minorities or otherwise oppressed groups. If this was your issue with the term being used negatively, then hopefully this clears things up.

I know that I'm not some kind of spokesperson for every Native American person, and I don't claim to be. But I don't think it's a good idea to use an important cultural element completely devoid of its context, especially when many people from that culture don't want it used that way.

Couldn't find an online article that went into detail about why appropriating the wendigo is an issue, but here's a paper that you can download as a pdf: https://openjournals.bsu.edu/dlr/article/download/DLR.7.0.101-112/1771
It's on the longer side, but worth reading. It focuses more on pop culture depictions and the change in what it symbolizes, but hopefully it still helps answer why using it this way is disrespectful.

Sorry if the end of my second paragraph was confusing, but I am aware that I can dye pets with theme colors. My point was to show how the name made me uncomfortable, rather than complain about an inability to have pets with the colors but without the tag.


On another note, I think others' suggestions of "wild wraith" and "wild werebeast" would be nice replacement names. For a suggestion of my own, maybe "wild woods"? Or if the acronym isn't important, "vengeful spirit" seems to fit the vibe pretty well.

You misunderstand. I am not arguing for that creator, I am simply stating that it happened on one of their videos. I am "arguing" for the people who said they were of native american descent and were upset that others were being hateful about the concept of the thing being used. Do they not have the right to let others use their toy as they want either, just as you have the right to say it's your toy? Though equating this whole argument to toys is really disrespectful to everyone in general.

In a group of people there will always be those who don't want to share ideas or traditions and those that do. The only reason that the idea of the creature is out there is because someone from those tribes shared the stories about it. And even if some of the people from those tribes doesn't like it it doesn't mean that the others feel the same, so my point about a not letting a small group speak for the entire group still stands. There are those out there who like the representation it's gotten in media and were upset about how the others were going around causing issues over what is essentially creative license, which is the ability to take a source material and make a fictional whatever about it.

It could be argued that everything we enjoy falls under having been taken from another culture and now it will be turned into everything being disrespectful to someone. Most of the avatar outfits we enjoy on here could fall under all of this too in some form or another. The Eros set? Greek origins, and their myths blatantly state that imitating the gods is a big no no and will get you super cursed. All of the Celtic themed things? Who knows whose toes we could be stepping on there, I haven't dug nearly far enough into it to say. Anything Disney related would certainly fall under this, and yes I am including the MCU in that enormous list.

At the risk of being dismissed, I will admit that I hate anything to do with the creature. There was a game about it and I think maybe a movie that I hard passed on. I am not a fan of the creepy or scary and I am superstitious to boot. If it had been an Aeridini theme I still would have given it away to the first player to ask for them, nice color palette or no. My whole issue is everyone suddenly trying to put a heritage lock on every concept or idea. If I took a blood test I would probably be part of at least 7 or 8 different groups but I have white skin so I am "white" and suddenly not allowed to enjoy clothes, ideas, or even the ability to make any fictions about anything from other countries or ethnic groups, even ones I may be a part of! That's not good at all for anyone.

And my last point which I think is the most important of all. If you don't want anyone messing with things, don't share them to begin with. One of the best bit of wisdom I've read from a book was this line, "you never have to take back something you never said to begin with".

To keep this thread from getting off topic and preventing there from being an open culture discourse in the forums I will refrain from commenting on this, though I have much to say.

If you'd like to discuss this topic more let me know and I'd love to discuss it through pms. I have a lot to say, but I just don't think this is the place for it. I'm not trying to be a hateful person, nor do I think everyone who disagrees with you does so with hateful intent but in order for there to be a productive discussion *both* sides have to be willing to accepts new concepts and ideas. Which does not appear to be what's happening here, because it seems you dismissed all of my concerns and decided to throw a bunch of other unrelated things in to invalidate my opinion which I feel deeply discouraged and honestly kind of hurt by.

I do not wish to be one of these "hateful" people to you, I've always regarded you as a pretty nice player whenever I've seen you around but if invalidating my argument is your version of having a discussion I wish to have no part in it. Which, it's now your decision whether you want to have the discussion or not.

Would like to post in agreement with Cat, Sv3n, Mika, etc. I'm certainly no expert on Algonquian culture, but from even some basic google searching it does seem like the portrayal of the Wendigo and its usage as a stock "creepy thing" is something the tribes of that region have an issue with. I doubt any harm or negative intent was meant in naming the theme that, but with the issue raised it does feel like changing the name would be a simple and easy fix - I like the suggestions provided.

I think it's great that Sylestia likes to include multiple cultures as inspiration for holiday events, avatar items, etc., but this feels like a time where the culture being used doesn't want to be ^^. At the least, I feel that going forward, stuff using the word Wendigo in the name should probably be avoided. Some cultures are very private about their practices and beliefs, for various reasons, and when it's over something as trivial as the name of a color palette on a fantasy bear, it's better to just respect that and use a different word. In particular, I know a lot of Native cultures are very specific about who, how and when their beliefs/practices are used/represented. In my view, if someone is asking you not to use a part of their culture, either at all or just not in certain ways, the polite and mature thing to do is just listen. If there's disagreement present in the community, it also really isn't our place to decide for them that it's OK to use.

Again, I'd like to stress that I don't think *any* malicious intent was present when naming the theme, nor do I think it's necessarily the worst case of cultural appropriation/offense to Algonquian peoples, but it does feel like something that would be better off being changed. Particularly because changing the theme's name would be a small, unobtrusive thing, it feels like an easy thing to do to err on the side of being respectful to Algonquian culture.

Hi there. I am going to go ahead and lock this thread and the others as it is turning into fighting. We will keep this feedback in mind moving forward but have no plans to change these things at this time. If you have any further concerns, you can go ahead and PM either myself or Krinadon.