Hello, I started playing Sylestia awhile ago and only recently starting again, and I love the game greatly. However, I do believe that the Themed "Wild Wendigo Morkko"'s, should be changed.

It seemed to be based upon the deer version created by the movie Wendigo (2001), and shows up in no actual myth of the telling of these creatures from Natives, but was simply a creation of the directors who gave it the name, only knowing that Wendigo's where scary creatures, and has directly been the cause for this.
Not only this, but the creature is very symbolic and holds a lot of value and lessons, and putting a misrepresentation of it in a video game, for no other reason then aesthetic, seems very unfair as well as further spreads an essentially white washed creature to be true, washing away native culture.
I'm sure the original idea had no malicious intent with there design, and I'd probably believe they would think of the creature as the one with horns, I'm sure a lot of Sylestia as well doesn't know that the horned wendigo is incorrect, that is why I feel that it should be brought up, and can be a good learning experience for us all.
The design is very nice, I quite like it myself, but I believe that at least the name must be changed, and that this cannot be ignored.

I will link a good article and a pbs video that goes into good depth to explain the actual lore and characterization of the creature, thank you for your time

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/windigo#:~:text=A%20windigo%20is%20a%20supernatural,of%20their%20greed%20or%20weakness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guiuXIMZ2vE&ab_channel=Storied

Thinking about this now as I started to look over more pets and all, there's a Zolnixi trait labeled as 'Shaman feathers' I believe this should be changed as well. It feels very much like cultural appropriation, as shamanism is a closed practice to native American individuals only. It is a practice mixed with both medicines, and spiritual traditions and interpretations. Things like this seem to relate to things such as large scale dream catchers, despite there being a massive gap of the actual story missing, that of Asibikaashi the spider women, being the reason they look like spider webs.

I could go on an on about how Sylestian is a fantasy based game and a lot of fantasy elements in games pull but don't usually outright copy from myths and legends. As for shamanism belonging supposedly only to a singular group of people...what about the rest of the shaman's in the world?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism#:~:text=Shamanism%20is%20a%20system%20of,the%20dead%20to%20the%20afterlife.

It's true that shamans are a part of several cultures, and it's much harder to make an argument about cultural appropriation as a result.

However, the first post is accurate. I don't think "it's a fantasy game" is a great defense of it. That might add to the issue, really. It's a palette that's meant to be ~spooky~ and has nothing to do with the actual myths. It's used as just another ~spooky fantasy thing~ rather than being a thoughtful representation of another culture. I also don't think there was any malicious intent, but that doesn't mean the result is issue-free because of it. It would be a minor change too; it's not like changing the name would have any effect of the actual theme. I quite like the palette, but I honestly felt kind of uncomfortable keeping any because of the theme name.

I'll also add that just because something happens to be common in a certain kind of media, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing. For example, coding villains as LGBTQ+ in horror media is very commonly used to make them seem more monstrous, and it should hopefully be obvious that this is harmful. There's a difference between respectfully portraying part of another culture as opposed to slapping a culturally significant word or concept onto an unrelated color palette.

Ill add my thoughts on it later but for now:
Perhaps Wild Wraith could be a good rename? Would keep the WW abbreviation

or wild weredeer/ werebeast/ werebear? that'd also keep the ww

Just a side note for all of this, the term "cultural appropriation" needs to stop being waved around and used at all. Connected cultures exchange ideas and grow, for better or worse. Heck without "cultural appropriation" we wouldn't even HAVE a Halloween! We also wouldn't have Christmas or Easter! No one can predict what idea will be taken at what time or how it will be used. The only way to keep an idea from spreading is to not share it in the first place.

Back to the main point. I also saw this exact name issue happen on a doll makers video on youtube and several of the viewers who said they were native americans said they didn't care at all. They had been really happy to see a good accurate representation of one of their myths even if it was an evil one (The doll had also been made for Halloween). They were upset to see it taken down. I do feel sympathy for your discomfort, but no one person should speak for an entire culture. We don't even know if the designer is a native american themselves or not. As for it being accurate on this site or not, it's on a bear. The only way to have it be accurate to source material is to make it a wearable outfit or a held, and I am super sure you'd have an even bigger issue with that. If you want the colors without the name, I'd suggest using pet dyes on a random 6 vis or max stat bear to get the colors without the tag. As long as you don't try to then sell it as one of those themes then it shouldn't be an issue at all.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=102028&page=1#7 Author: Zekotan Time Posted: 3/13/2022 at 11:47 AM Just a side note for all of this, the term "cultural appropriation" needs to stop being waved around and used at all. Connected cultures exchange ideas and grow, for better or worse. Heck without "cultural appropriation" we wouldn't even HAVE a Halloween! We also wouldn't have Christmas or Easter! No one can predict what idea will be taken at what time or how it will be used. The only way to keep an idea from spreading is to not share it in the first place. Back to the main point. I also saw this exact name issue happen on a doll makers video on youtube and several of the viewers who said they were native americans said they didn't care at all. They had been really happy to see a good accurate representation of one of their myths even if it was an evil one (The doll had also been made for Halloween). They were upset to see it taken down. I do feel sympathy for your discomfort, but no one person should speak for an entire culture. We don't even know if the designer is a native american themselves or not. As for it being accurate on this site or not, it's on a bear. The only way to have it be accurate to source material is to make it a wearable outfit or a held, and I am super sure you'd have an even bigger issue with that. If you want the colors without the name, I'd suggest using pet dyes on a random 6 vis or max stat bear to get the colors without the tag. As long as you don't try to then sell it as one of those themes then it shouldn't be an issue at all.

|| We also wouldn't have Christmas or Easter!

Who is "we"? Aren't those Christian holidays? For celebrating Christian events/beliefs?

Cultural appropriation isn't just a label you slap onto things willy-nilly without meaning. If somebody's saying that, 95% of the time it's cultural appropriation. In this case it is in a fantasy game and you're right in that we don't know the creator's background, but a) it was just a suggestion and b) this response makes me think that you see very little issues with certain backgrounds.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=102028&page=1#8 Author: Tisquares Time Posted: 3/13/2022 at 1:30 PM [quote=2630589] || We also wouldn't have Christmas or Easter! Who is "we"? Aren't those Christian holidays? For celebrating Christian events/beliefs? Cultural appropriation isn't just a label you slap onto things willy-nilly without meaning. If somebody's saying that, 95% of the time it's cultural appropriation. In this case it is in a fantasy game and you're right in that we don't know the creator's background, but a) it was just a suggestion and b) this response makes me think that you see very little issues with certain backgrounds.

Actually.... Christmas and Easter were appropriated by the Christians way back when to help with indoctrinating believers of other religions at the time into Christianity. Christmas as it is celebrated now, on December 25th, was to coincide with winter festivals that celebrated the sun coming back after the longest night of the year (and other winter traditions - like the Christmas tree comes from an old German pagan tradition). Near as anyone looking at historical accuracy in the bible has come to a date of Jesus' actual birth (that I've seen) was somewhere between July and September, so not having anything to do with December.

Easter comes from a pre-Christian celebration for the goddess Eostre that marked the beginning of spring, or the celebration of Ostara. The eggs and bunnies that are related to the celebration of Easter were symbols used in these celebrations to represent fertility (common theme of spring celebrations). Obviously Easter was appropriated easily by Christians at the time because these spring celebrations were at a similar time to the Jewish Passover which was right before the death and resurrection of Christ, but so much of what we associate with Easter did not start out as a Christian tradition.

Honestly, there are a lot of cultures and religions that have 'borrowed' and 'appropriated' from each other to build what they are today. I'm not saying whether the suggestion of this thread good or bad (and definitely not what can and can't be shared between cultures - some things are sacred. Some things.... people of the culture involved honestly don't care if others want to enjoy and celebrate, and will welcome the interest in their culture), but just some food for thought that just because something has been part of one culture or tradition for a long time doesn't mean that's where it came from and that it wasn't taken from somewhere else along the way either. Which begs the question that I think Zeko was trying to ask: who decides what is appropriation (versus, say, representation), and where do we stop in trying to go back and 'fix' things like that?

Thankfully, in this instance, I doubt that the name of the theme is that important to most players, so a name change is really all that's needed. So I support that, if that's what is decided.

I will not be continuing this conversation here. If you wish to converse on it more or expand on your defense, shoot me a PM.